10mm Auto: (Un)fairly ignored?

[Yournamehere]

Originally Posted by predator20

Yeah my 4505 weighs 2 lbs 15 oz and my 1911 2 lbs 12.4 oz. They're pretty much the same size. The 4505 has a little bit of extra width on the slide. I'm not sure if anything has been done to mine, but the DA trigger is fairly nice. Especially compared to my Beretta's DA trigger

That doesn't sound right. 1911s on average weigh 37 ounces (2 pounds, 5 ounces, 1 pound=16 ounces) and a 4505/6 will weigh about the same, maybe a few ounces heavier. Were you weighing them loaded or on a 12 ounces=1 pound scale?

Also if it has a trigger that's better than a Berettas, more power to ya. 3rd gen Smith autos tend to have pretty bad triggers compared to Berettas and SIGs, but the 4505 might be an exception as it was an early model and wasn't mass produced (or at least not as much so as the 4506 or 5906).

I also read that the Novak sighted 4505 is the rarest configuration of the gun, so again you have another reason to be proud of it.

[k9870]

1911 weights are tricky. Many manufacturers post weight without mag, and things like a skeltonized hammer and thinner grips can strip off ounces quick. Then if you have higher profile combat sights, made of metal, well, they add a couple ounces. But this is a duty gun for open carry on a holster belt, i dont care if its 37 ounces or 43 ounces. Theres better places to save weight than a gun, a heavy gun shoots better. Start by switching a leather duty belt to nylon or other tough material and get a lighter flashlight, a maglights too heavy.

[predator20]

Originally Posted by Yournamehere

That doesn't sound right. 1911s on average weigh 37 ounces (2 pounds, 5 ounces, 1 pound=16 ounces) and a 4505/6 will weigh about the same, maybe a few ounces heavier. Were you weighing them loaded or on a 12 ounces=1 pound scale?

Also if it has a trigger that's better than a Berettas, more power to ya. 3rd gen Smith autos tend to have pretty bad triggers compare to Smiths and SIGs, but the 4505 might be an exception as it was an early model and wasn't mass produced (or at least not as much so as the 4506 or 5906).

I also read that the Novak sighted 4505 is the rarest configuration of the gun, so again you have another reason to be proud of it.

They were both loaded with 8 rounds in the mag. Unloaded my 1911 weighs 2 lbs 3.7 oz, the mag with 8 rounds weighs 8.6 oz by itself. Mines a Para, I think my dads Taurus weighs about an oz or two heavier.

How heavy was the hammer on your old S&W? Mine is fairly light which may be making the trigger pull better. I haven't shot it yet, I don't want to be getting light primer strikes.

[Yournamehere]

I don't know the exact weight or the trigger pull weight but the hammer was fairly light. Since it's a double action trigger the hammer is only one part of the whole mechanism, so there are other things that contribute to a good or bad pull. I could thumb cock the hammer pretty easily and the single action wasn't bad, though it had a lot of play between pulling it and actually dropping the hammer. The Double Action was steady but pretty rough, worse than a double action revolver. It was still very shootable though.

Anyhow the overall weights loaded seem about right, I thought you were going with unloaded weights.

[S&Wshooter]

I have no clue what your talking about when you say S&W 3rd generation pistols don't have that great of triggers, as the pull on my 4506 is comparable to that of a 1911

[predator20]

Originally Posted by Yournamehere

I don't know the exact weight or the trigger pull weight but the hammer was fairly light. since it's a double action trigger the hammer is only one part of the whole mechanism, so there are other things that contribute to a good or bad pull. I could thumb cock the hammer pretty easily and the single action wasn't bad, though it had a lot of play between pulling it and actually dropping the hammer. The Double Action was steady but pretty rough, worse than a double action revolver. It was still very shootable though.

Anyhow the overall weights loaded seem about right, I thought you were going with unloaded weights.

Yeah I should have listed them as loaded so there wasn't any confusion. They were talking about carrying them, you're going to carry them loaded is the reason I weighed them that way. Also I was too lazy to take the mag out.

The DA pull on my S&W 586 is heavy, but consistent doesn't feel sloppy like on some semi-autos. In SA it beats all, give it a slight tap.



Also we have gotten off topic. About the 10mm.

The reason it was developed. In the 1986 FBI Miami shootout. Agent Jerry Dove fired a Winchester 9mm 115 grain Silvertip at Michael Platt. It went through his right arm and lung and stopped an inch from his heart. (Platt ended up killing Dove and Agent Grogan) Instead on developing a new cartridge they should have developed better loadings for the 9mm. Which they have nowadays. Also Platt was shot a total of 12 times and he wasn't on any drugs like the North Hollywood guys. The human body can take a lot. No matter what the round.

[Yournamehere]

Yeah, it's kind of weird how the .40 came about. Since we can't shut our traps about S&W Autos, and this 10mm cartridge, I'd really like to get my hands on a 1006. Of the maybe 5 or 6 10mm designs, this (and a Delta Elite) are the ones I'd most likely buy. I wouldn't mind a Bren Ten either but I might as well look for the ever evasive .45 Luger.

@ S&W You can't fully compare a double action trigger to a 1911's trigger. Most single action pulls are about 4-5 pounds, and if they aren't it's either a lemon on the line or not a brand name gun. There are other things to look for like creep and of course the double action pull. I've held and handled examples of first, second, and third gen pistols (my 5906 was pretty early too, made in 1992) and there was a significant loss of quality in the trigger pull between the 1st/2nd gen and 3rd gens. It might be different for the 3rd generation .45 Caliber frames as I've never handled a 4506, but I don't see any reason the performance would be that much different from a 9mm frame, and if it isn't then it has the same mediocre trigger. I'm not saying it's an utterly terrible worthless trigger, but it's not as good as other options and certainly not a 1911's.

[S&Wshooter]

Originally Posted by Yournamehere

I'd really like to get my hands on a 1006

I think i'd be nice to have one also, along with maybe an EAA Witness (my friend's father has one in 9mm and he has nothing but good things to say about it) in 10mm to go along with it

[k9870]

VLTOR got the rights for the bren ten and introduced it at SHOT.

As for the miami shootout, they had defective ammo, the lot was bad and it failed to penetrate or expand as it should have. Tactics also sucked, none of them decided to use their body armor (they had just left it in trunk).

A NY state cop was wounded, fired a 9mm at a suspect, hit him in the arm, and then the suspect killed the cop before another officer downed him. The state police said this was proo 9mm lacked stopping power and switched to 45. Like a .45 in the arm will cut a man in half.

[S&Wshooter]

Originally Posted by predator20

The human body can take a lot. No matter what the round.

Have any of you by chance read "We Were Soldiers Once...And Young"? Some of the US soldiers take staggering amounts of rounds from the NVA's AK's without even slowing down