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  #11  
Old 04-06-2012, 07:03 AM
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AdAstra2009 AdAstra2009 is offline
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Your creating a definition for a submachine gun that goes further then the dictionary meaning, or then what most people would consider a smg. That is arbitrary.
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  #12  
Old 04-15-2012, 06:50 AM
Mazryonh Mazryonh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdAstra2009 View Post
Your creating a definition for a submachine gun that goes further then the dictionary meaning, or then what most people would consider a smg. That is arbitrary.
I based it on the fact that the archetypal machine pistol is a handgun converted for select-fire and/or fully-automatic fire capability. That is what separates a machine pistol from other types of handguns--the ergonomics could be exactly the same (i.e., such as when you compare a Glock 18 to a Glock 17) as a similar semiautomatic-only handgun, but select-fire and/or fully-automatic fire capability would be what separate the two.
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:07 PM
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Firstly, this is in the wrong section, it should be in the IMFDB subforum.

Second, where are you getting these definitions from?
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  #14  
Old 04-20-2012, 06:33 AM
Mazryonh Mazryonh is offline
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Originally Posted by Evil Tim View Post
Firstly, this is in the wrong section, it should be in the IMFDB subforum.

Second, where are you getting these definitions from?
Pardon me, I was under the impression that since it dealt with guns and how they should be categorized it belonged in this forum. If it should be moved to the imfdb subforum, I have no objection.

And I did not get these definitions from anyone/anywhere else. I figured them out on my own. Again, all that separates a handgun from a machine pistol of the exact same outward appearance is either select-fire ability or fully automatic fire capability (if that is the only fire mode available).

The Bergmann MP18, being the first "true" SMG, had the ergonomics of a rifle, fully-automatic fire capability, along with a buttstock and a dedicated place for your offhand (the "mission profile" when they were first created was to create a light, compact, but accurate weapon you could shoulder and steady with both hands to fire in the confines of WWI trenches, after all). Without one or both of those ergonomic devices (such as when H&K made the stockless MP5K), a former SMG becomes much harder to aim and fire accurately (a stockless MP5K weighs more than a Glock 18 and with no buttstock is much harder to keep on target for anything other than semiautomatic fire), and thus would be closer to a handgun than a rifle in the ergonomics department.

Conversely, sticking just a stock on a Glock 18 doesn't make it a submachine gun anymore than a M712 Schnellfeur with its holster-stock fitted on it makes it a submachine gun. It's still a machine pistol with a stock, because there's no dedicated place to put your offhand (you could try holding down the stock in the case of the Schnellfeur while firing a burst, but the leverage is working against you). Sticking a Glock 18 in a FAB Defense K.P.O.S. conversion kit would, however, give you an ersatz compact SMG because of the stock and foregrip included in the kit. I say "ersatz" because that's not what a Glock 18 was purpose-made for, and one in such a kit may have the ergonomics of a rifle/SMG, but at its core it's still a machine pistol.
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