Interesting NY Times article on NYPD revolvers.

MT2008 · #1 10-20-2009, 09:22 PM

Very interesting. Though I personally don't remember seeing too many revolvers the last time I was up there.

The irony is that this author doesn't seem to realize it, but the fact that the "young guns" are carrying 9mm Glocks, SIGs, and S&Ws shows how far behind the times the whole department really is. When Commissioner Kelly ordered the switch to 9mms in 1993, many federal, state, and local agencies in the U.S. were starting to ditch 9mms and adopting .40 S&W pistols. It was a trend that was only just starting (and didn't really complete itself until about 2000), but it's the kind of thing I would figure that a big, well-funded department like NYPD would adopt sooner rather than later (or never). My own local PD, which has a pretty small operating budget even for its size and jurisdiction, was adopting the Glock 22 and 23 in 1993 (though to be fair, this was after 30 years of using S&W revolvers, so they were LONG overdue).

So the veterans in the NYPD may be carrying revolvers, but the new recruits are still behind the rest of the country to this day.

k9870 · #2 10-20-2009, 10:23 PM

And NYC issues double action only, FAIL.

Jcordell · #3 10-20-2009, 10:44 PM

MT2008

Quote:

The irony is that this author doesn't seem to realize it, but the fact that the "young guns" are carrying 9mm Glocks, SIGs, and S&Ws shows how far behind the times the whole department really is. When Commissioner Kelly ordered the switch to 9mms in 1993, many federal, state, and local agencies in the U.S. were starting to ditch 9mms and adopting .40 S&W pistols. It was a trend that was only just starting (and didn't really complete itself until about 2000), but it's the kind of thing I would figure that a big, well-funded department like NYPD would adopt sooner rather than later (or never). My own local PD, which has a pretty small operating budget even for its size and jurisdiction, was adopting the Glock 22 and 23 in 1993 (though to be fair, this was after 30 years of using S&W revolvers, so they were LONG overdue).

So the veterans in the NYPD may be carrying revolvers, but the new recruits are still behind the rest of the country to this day

Ahhh the 9mm debate. I don't think it will ever end. When I was hired by my department in 2000 we could carry any type of semi-auto pistol we wanted as long as it was 9mm, 40 S&W or 45 acp. If your choice was GLOCK, Beretta, S&W, Colt/Kimber/Springfield 1911, Ruger, H&K, Browning Hi-Power or Sig Sauer your were good to go. Other choices had to be approved by the Lt. in charge.

Our city continued to grow as did our manpower. For some reason as departments grow admin eventually feels like it's a good idea to go to a uniform issue and a single caliber if possible. In 2006 we got a Federal grant and went with GLOCK. The decision was to go with the G21 (45 acp) but we (the firearms instructors) met with admin and told them that we should have a smaller frame for those already hired officers to go with. That's fairly standard now all over the country. Evidently there were some lawsuits and so on.

Anyway the Chief agreed and the Glock 19 was offered as the alternative. Alot of folks don't like the 40 S&W. That load beats up on frames and the barrels supposedly don't last as long. Whatever the reasoning the boss made the choice and I went along because I'm not the boss. I carried a Sig Sauer P245 (45 acp) before the switch, but I opted for the G19. I don't like that big old chunky grip and I don't have big hands. Simply put I don't trust my ability to get a good grip on the model under stress. No matter how much I practice so I went with the 9mm. Now all officers hired after the transition get the G21 and that's it. I teach them and most of them do well, but I'm going to stick with the G19. I like it and I shoot it well. I don't feel like I'm behind the times at all.

For what it's worth we carry the Federal +P 124 grain HST hollow point load. It's been tested in many real world police shootings and has proven it's worth.

The G21 officers use the Federal +P 230 grain HST hollowpoint load. Another excellent load.

We also carry Federal 00 buckshot and slugs in our Remington 870's and Federal 5.56 mm in our various AR-15 rifles. As you can see Federal ammo has a big fan in my department.

I don't consider using the 9mm to be behind the times as long as you carry good ammo. The most important thing is can you hit what you are shooting at and are you using a quality pistol? It isn't my favorite but I trust GLOCK QC. Now when the NYPD restricted it's officers to hardball ammo the department was absolutely behind the times. 9mm hardball is only good for target shooting. That was a braindead act and I believe has since been reversed.Mind you I said believe. Handgun ammo has come a long ways since the 1986 Miami shooting between the FBI and Platt and Matix.

P.S. I actually think the .357 magnum is a great load. Very accurate and powerful, but I don't ever see that coming back into police usage with the exception of backup pieces. However I have a Ruger GP100 and a S&W Model 28 at home. Great models that shoot a great load.

Excalibur · #4 10-21-2009, 03:11 AM

I live in Lake County Indiana and I've encountered a lot of cops who were allowed to carry their own on duty pistols. So far, I've encountered guys with Kimbers, USPs in .45, I forget which SIG was it, but it was in .40 S&W. I found out that a lot of the East Chicago's issued sidearm was a Beretta M96 in the .40 S&W, the same for the State troopers, too. Lake County Sheriff's department has Glock 22s as the standard. A lot of departments apparently has Glock 22s.

MT2008 · #5 10-21-2009, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Checkman

Ahhh the 9mm debate. I don't think it will ever end.

Actually, I'm more of a 9mm guy myself. In other topics, I've expressed a preference for 9mm over .40. It's partially because I'm a SIG guy and their .40 magazines only hold 12 rounds, but also because 9mm is cheaper anyway.

I just couldn't help but feel a tiny bit of irony that this clueless NY Times writer doesn't seem to understand how behind-the-times he's making the NYPD look.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excalibur

I live in Lake County Indiana and I've encountered a lot of cops who were allowed to carry their own on duty pistols. So far, I've encountered guys with Kimbers, USPs in .45, I forget which SIG was it, but it was in .40 S&W. I found out that a lot of the East Chicago's issued sidearm was a Beretta M96 in the .40 S&W, the same for the State troopers, too. Lake County Sheriff's department has Glock 22s as the standard. A lot of departments apparently has Glock 22s.

The G22 is by far the most common LE sidearm in the U.S. Glock dominates about 2/3rds of the domestic LE market, and of that, I'd guess probably 90% of the departments that use Glocks issue/authorize the G22. Glock's web site even calls it "The U.S. Law Enforcement Pistol."

Also, what's a Beretta M96? Do you mean 96F? There is no "M" before the 9 in the Beretta 92/96-series pistols.

Excalibur · #6 10-21-2009, 04:47 AM

Sorry, I forgot about the M designation. The ECPD detective that guest lectured said it was a 96. Didn't say if it was an F model or not

Yournamehere · #7 10-21-2009, 04:57 AM

All I can say is that NYPD guns suck. They have about 5 or 6 9mm DAO guns approved for duty carry and and only a few more for off duty, and they all have 12 pound trigger pulls, including the Glock 19. The only one that would be even remotely comfortable is the Smith and Wesson Model 64 in .38 Special, the topic of the article. By design it's DA so it's not gonna feel messed with, and it would be comfortable to shoot. Of course you've lost the firepower you get with a double stack automatic in 9mm, but like I said, they suck.