The Glory Might of the XM29.

Spartan198 · #1 08-07-2009, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nyles

You want to talk about wastes of money, what about the F-22 (which they're finally getting rid of)? Yeah, it's the most capable fighter aircraft ever made. It's also the most expensive. The F-15 and new F/A-18s are already superior to or at least competetive with anything they're likely to come up against, and the F-35 is more than good enough for a next step and alot cheaper.

Not that I'm either agreeing or disagreeing with you, but considering the F35 was designed from the outset as a strike fighter (much like the F16 and F/A-18), asking it to do the job of an F15 or F22 is only going to result in the US losing a lot of planes (and possibly pilots) when Su-37s start showing up.

Ace Oliveira · #2 08-07-2009, 02:12 PM

Su-37s. Really? Did you forget what Matt said? We aren't going to fight fighter jets in a long time.

Spartan198 · #3 08-07-2009, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace Oliveira

Su-37s. Really? Did you forget what Matt said? We aren't going to fight fighter jets in a long time.

It's better to have a condom and not need it, than to need a condom and not have one. [/random gratuitous Aliens vs Predator reference]

And...which one of us is Matt?

Ace Oliveira · #4 08-07-2009, 03:46 PM

MT2008. It's nice to train and arm up against both conventional threats AND unconventional ones, but a lot of those contracts like the Future Soldier and the F-22 and XM29 are just shit. We have a good military that can kick conventional ass. I'm sure we could win a war with North Korea. Of course, there would be Millions dead and Seoul would be in shambles and there would be shit loads of refugees crossing the border into the South and China.

Spartan198 · #5 08-07-2009, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace Oliveira

MT2008. It's nice to train and arm up against both conventional threats AND unconventional ones, but a lot of those contracts like the Future Soldier and the F-22 and XM29 are just shit. We have a good military that can kick conventional ass. I'm sure we could win a war with North Korea. Of course, there would be Millions dead and Seoul would be in shambles there would be shit loads of refugees crossing the border into the South and China.

I agree on Future Force Warrior and such, but aircraft are getting ever more advanced as time goes by, especially Russian designs like the Su-37. And with the rapidly-deteriorating relationship between the US and Russia, they're more than likely going to be willing to sell to our enemies and possibly even do the flying for them. We will eventually find ourselves in a conventional war where air superiority is key. And an aircraft like the Sukhoi that can snap its nose back in mid-air to take a potshot at a trailing fighter is going to be a severe threat to our "adequate" F15s and F18s that can't even hope to match that kind of maneuverability. I'm not saying technology trumps all, but it definitely plays a big part. An aircraft like the F22 that can match the aerodynamic capabilities of the most advanced of OpFor aircraft is only going to make the fight easier and a bit safer for our guys.

Ace Oliveira · #6 08-07-2009, 05:53 PM

Well, i do like the F-22 a little. But the F-35 is just way better. What we need is to make the AC-130 the standard issue Ground Attack plane and buy hundreds of them. Those things could win wars.

And Spartan, The US-Russian Relations are deteriorating as fast as you think.

MT2008 · #7 08-07-2009, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spartan198

And with the rapidly-deteriorating relationship between the US and Russia, they're more than likely going to be willing to sell to our enemies and possibly even do the flying for them. We will eventually find ourselves in a conventional war where air superiority is key. And an aircraft like the Sukhoi that can snap its nose back in mid-air to take a potshot at a trailing fighter is going to be a severe threat to our "adequate" F15s and F18s that can't even hope to match that kind of maneuverability.

Another point worth mentioning...while Russian pilots may be training to perform this maneuver, can you seriously even begin to imagine Venezuelan or Iranian pilots being that good?

I remember how it used to be that everyone was afraid of the MiG-29 because of an exercise conducted between the USAF and Luftwaffe where an ex-East German MiG-29 managed to shoot down an F-16C in close combat. There were some analysts who wondered if the same thing would happen during ops against the Serbian AF during Operation Allied Force in 1999 (since the Serbs had working MiG-29s to deploy back then). As it turned out, of course, USAF and Dutch F-16s shot down several of the Serbs' MiGs. Why? Because German and Russian pilots are a million times better than Serb pilots, and because the Serb MiGs had been plagued by a lack of spare parts since the Soviet Union fell.

Ace Oliveira · #8 08-07-2009, 10:03 PM

Would the Brazilian Air Force be a match for the Venezuelan Air Force?

MT2008 · #9 08-07-2009, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace Oliveira

Su-37s. Really? Did you forget what Matt said? We aren't going to fight fighter jets in a long time.

I have my opinion like everyone else, and Spartan198 is free to disagree with me. What Matt says is not gospel turth.

I also didn't say we don't need fighter jets for a long time; I simply question whether we really need the F-22 in particular. If you really don't think we need fighter jets, PERIOD, then go vote for Cynthia McKinney or something.

Ace Oliveira · #10 08-07-2009, 08:53 PM

Matt's word is law, dammit.

Also, the F-INSAS like the rest of the Future soldier shit, looks horrible. However, since it's India that is doing it, don't they have better places to invest their money? Like education to fix the 61 percent of Indians that are illiterate. How about, fixing the overpopulation? Seriously, India doesn't need this shit. Actually, no country needs this shit.