Sig p227

[commando552]

I wouldn't even call the P227 a double stack, it is more like a one and a half stack. I imagine the reason it has such a crappy capacity is the fact that it wasn't designed really as a double stack .45, but rather built around the .45 magazine for the P250 (I think the base plate is changed for no reason just to make them incompatible) which was originally made as a 9mm.

[Excalibur]

I've handled it and I've never been a fan of DA/SA triggers. I prefer striker fire. I think the M&P 45 and the XDM 45 beats the SIG in ergonomics, mag capacity and price.

[The Wierd It]

Why is everyone so desperate to see the US Military drop the M9, a platform that has worked perfectly well for nearly thirty years?

[commando552]

Originally Posted by The Wierd It

Why is everyone so desperate to see the US Military drop the M9, a platform that has worked perfectly well for nearly thirty years?

A lot of people think the 9x19mm isn't powerful enough for a service pistol, but I don't really agree with that. However I have shot the M9 and I really didn't like it as a service pistol for one reason above all others, the slide mounted safety. When I was using the gun, twice I ended up accidentally applying the safety when racking the slide which is something that I really wouldn't want to happen in a fight.

Granted the only pistols I had used before were either frame mounted safety/decocker guns or those without a manual safety/decocker so it may have just been my issue. I know that there are ways to prevent this with training, but I think it is just one more thing that can go wrong and an unnecessary complication on a general issue service pistol. Although I do not particularly like striker fired pistols like the Glock 17, I think it and things like it are a better choices for service pistols due to the simplicity and ease of training.

I also feel like the M9 is probably more susceptible to dust and debris with that open slide and exposed trigger bar. I understand the open slide is to reduce weight, but why the trigger bar is on the outside like that is beyond me.

[Excalibur]

The same reason why the US military hasn't dropped the M9 is the same for the M16/M4 platform. One is partly because of contracts to the companies that makes them and that a weapon is meant for a specific purpose isn't worth the money to replace en mass. Not everyone on the front line is issued a sidearm and their pistol training is only basic level.

A military as large as the US has bought so many of them that the cost of replacing it is incredibly costly for the defense department.

For civilians, we can get modern defensive 9mm ammo that are hollow point and can cause more damage to stop an unarmored target. In the military world, they aren't allowed that and the 9mm can only do so much if that's what you have left. The military is more worried about how effective is their current rifle platform, which isn't that bad.

It all comes down to cost.

[funkychinaman]

I think it's also a matter of need. Anyone who truly needed a better sidearm like aviators and special warfare units already got better pistols. I guess whoever was left didn't really have a pressing need.

What was the reasoning behind moving the safety on the Beretta 92 up to the slide? I know the army had a long-time hard-on for the Walther P38, but the frame-mounted safety just seems to make more sense ergonomically and intuitively.

[commando552]

Originally Posted by funkychinaman

I think it's also a matter of need. Anyone who truly needed a better sidearm like aviators and special warfare units already got better pistols. I guess whoever was left didn't really have a pressing need.

What was the reasoning behind moving the safety on the Beretta 92 up to the slide? I know the army had a long-time hard-on for the Walther P38, but the frame-mounted safety just seems to make more sense ergonomically and intuitively.

The slide mounted safety allows for a really simple and reliable firing pin safety. Turning the safety to the on position rotates a piece that contains the separate rear portion of the firing pin (think they call it a transfer pin), meaning that if the hammer falls with the safety on there is no possible way for it to hit the firing pin. The first Beretta variant that had the slide safety was the S though and I don't think they did the firing pin block until the SB, so I'm not sure what the original reason was. It may have been easier to make a safety/decocker rather than a plain safety work on the slide rather than the frame, but Taurus manage it with their newer guns so it's a mystery to me.