Profanity in movie quotes

[Evil Tim]

Yes, but the manner in which it's been bought up still bothers me: no matter how you put it, it feels like we're letting an extremely immature and borderline-useless user get his way if we go along with this.

[MoviePropMaster2008]

Originally Posted by Evil Tim

Yes, but the manner in which it's been bought up still bothers me: no matter how you put it, it feels like we're letting an extremely immature and borderline-useless user get his way if we go along with this.

Okay, I think we should codify a standard that fits the general (not the exceptions) for American Broadcast television. That should make everyone happy (help me out with suggestions folks). The problem is that we suddenly have a new member who (i think) has good intentions but is rubbing other members the wrong way with censoring foul language all over the place. Unfortunately, some of this language is acceptable (if it is acceptable during PRIME TIME on network AMERICAN TV, we should accept it here).

I know on paper this looks weird, but bear with me:

Censored words:
Fuck
Shit (used 'once' on NCIS and never again)
Cunt
Blowjob (though technically NOT a profanity but an explicit noun for a sexual act, better safe than sorry).
Asshole (used on cable but not free broadcast)


Words that are not censored on Broadcast TV anymore:
Bitch
Son of a Bitch (or any spelling variant)
Bastard
Anal
Goddam (Used to be taboo in the 1970s, you could say 'Damn" but now I hear it all the time on TV, again, profane but from a purely religious perspective)
Faggot (usually any epithet creates uproar NOT because it is profane but because it offends a specific group)
Nigger (unfortunately most epithets are accurate descriptors of people's prejudices from various points in history, including today. This was a common term in the 19th century and was used by Mark Twain, so it stays).
Any racial epithet (Again, these are not considered profane, just offensive)

more suggestions?.....

[Spartan198]

I've heard "shit" uncensored on broadcast TV, but only on FX and one episode of South Park on Comedy Central. "Ass" by itself is also frequently uncensored on broadcast TV (The Simpsons, Family Guy, etc.).

[funkychinaman]

I think "asshole" is okay now too. I remember hearing it on NYPD Blue when it was still on.

[Yournamehere]

First of all, "shit" has been used a lot on network television in the last few years and is more or less acceptable nowadays given the usage. I cite several South Park episodes, Several Comedy Central stand up programs, Nip Tuck, NCIS as you've said and I few others I can't remember. Furthermore, Comedy Central further pushes the envelope by using "fuck" during their later night programming (usually after 1 AM or so), as well as other otherwise censored words or phrases.

I bring this up for two reasons, one because the swearing standard is slowly coming down around us (yes you said Prime Time, but TV is TV all day more or less with regard to censorship), and two because based on that, TV allows us to say the words being disputed which are pretty much "shit", "fuck" and "asshole" at this point.

Furthermore this is a site based on movies, so why not just go by movie rating standards instead? If your answer is "because we just can't allow "shit", "fuck" and "asshole" on the site and retain professional nature" I must retort and say that is false. I don't think members should curse profusely, perhaps at all, on the site, but you aren't acknowledging my argument that what we're attempting to censor are quotes that are not ours and don't reflect us. And to dig up an argument already used, IMDB doesn't censor their quotes (granted they aren't on the front page) and they're a pretty credible site. We aren't them nor do we have their visitorbase, but that doesn't mean we have to water down because a few high profile people might frown upon us because of some idea that small sites must adhere to more strict standards of censoring content, not the people on here, they should hold their tongues, I agree with that, but the content we allow on the site like the quotes. Don't forget, again, despite this place not being our playground, that this is on a playground sort of medium, the internet, and that there are expectations of this medium as well, as in there being more leniency of content on here.

I just feel like there's a policy hole in posting censored quotes. If we're a database for people to look for movie guns, the quotes are unnecessary and they should be gone, period. If not, then we are a site about movies as well as guns and therefore we should take on more of a lax approach, especially given this is the internet and a site we are compared to does the same. Just as well, even if swearing is on the site and someone high profile does view the site, do you honestly think they will discount the entire site because of some visible profanity in a quote?

[funkychinaman]

Just for the record, South Park is not considered "network television." It's cable. Same with anything on Comedy Central or FX. (And South Park IS edited for content when in syndication.) Network television in the US is CBS, NBC, ABC, Fox, and CW. That's not counting what the affiliates chose to air on their own.

But, like the man said, it's a movie site. So, PG-13 standard?

[Yournamehere]

Ah, okay, I wasn't aware of a distinction between network television and cable. All the same though, I don't see the parallel between this site's censorship rules and network television's specifically.

[MoviePropMaster2008]

Originally Posted by Yournamehere

First of all, "shit" has been used a lot on network television in the last few years and is more or less acceptable nowadays given the usage. I cite several South Park episodes, Several Comedy Central stand up programs, Nip Tuck, NCIS as you've said and I few others I can't remember. Furthermore, Comedy Central further pushes the envelope by using "fuck" during their later night programming (usually after 1 AM or so), as well as other otherwise censored words or phrases.

I bring this up for two reasons, one because the swearing standard is slowly coming down around us (yes you said Prime Time, but TV is TV all day more or less with regard to censorship), and two because based on that, TV allows us to say the words being disputed which are pretty much "shit", "fuck" and "asshole" at this point.

Furthermore this is a site based on movies, so why not just go by movie rating standards instead? If your answer is "because we just can't allow "shit", "fuck" and "asshole" on the site and retain professional nature" I must retort and say that is false. I don't think members should curse profusely, perhaps at all, on the site, but you aren't acknowledging my argument that what we're attempting to censor are quotes that are not ours and don't reflect us. And to dig up an argument already used, IMDB doesn't censor their quotes (granted they aren't on the front page) and they're a pretty credible site. We aren't them nor do we have their visitorbase, but that doesn't mean we have to water down because a few high profile people might frown upon us because of some idea that small sites must adhere to more strict standards of censoring content, not the people on here, they should hold their tongues, I agree with that, but the content we allow on the site like the quotes. Don't forget, again, despite this place not being our playground, that this is on a playground sort of medium, the internet, and that there are expectations of this medium as well, as in there being more leniency of content on here.

I just feel like there's a policy hole in posting censored quotes. If we're a database for people to look for movie guns, the quotes are unnecessary and they should be gone, period. If not, then we are a site about movies as well as guns and therefore we should take on more of a lax approach, especially given this is the internet and a site we are compared to does the same. Just as well, even if swearing is on the site and someone high profile does view the site, do you honestly think they will discount the entire site because of some visible profanity in a quote?

You certainly seem to have vested a lot of your personal capital in this argument. The only thing I KNOW for a fact is that IMFDB will not become a profanity free for all. We are NOT like IMDB in many more ways than you mentioned (a) we don't moderate ALL items coming in ... THEY DO. If we had that sort of filter, we could go on a case by case basis but we don't. (b) we have too many kids and trolls creating trouble because of the Wiki format, Bunni did a great thing back in 2007, right now we seem to be a victim of our own success (c) we tend to attract too many people who fixate on certain things and just won't let it go (just looking at some of the VG arguments makes my head hurt). (d) we WILL always piss off someone. I remember putting my foot down against manga and books and I still got a boat load of grief about it from angry members. And most members don't see how many foreign members throughout the years complain about IMFDB being an American oriented site (with our standards, protocols, etc). That being said, I really have nothing else to say.

[Yournamehere]

I agree wholeheartedly that it shouldn't be a festival of us swearing, as that can bring the respectable nature of the site down, but I really think the quotes should stay intact or go.

[Evil Tim]

Originally Posted by MoviePropMaster2008

(b) we have too many kids and trolls creating trouble because of the Wiki format, Bunni did a great thing back in 2007, right now we seem to be a victim of our own success

I think you're being a little hard on the userbase. We have a lot of great contributors, some who still have a fair bit to learn, and only a few out-and-out bad eggs, most of whom don't last long. I think the main issue is we don't have a proper "how to format articles" guide up yet, which is something I'm actually working on, plus there's a lot of badly formatted articles lurking in the depths which need to be bought up to standard.

But then nobody ever said this was going to be a cakewalk, and we're all still here.