Uh oh

[k9870]

A country with a human rights record that bad and history of agression? It would be easy to gain allies, a joint American/South korean/ whoever has the balls to help us force sounds like it could be done and public opinion on our side.

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by k9870

A country with a human rights record that bad and history of agression? It would be easy to gain allies, a joint American/South korean/ whoever has the balls to help us force sounds like it could be done and public opinion on our side.

(1.) China, and possibly Russia, would be thrown into a panic and immediately mobilize against us. North Korea is their ally, even though they both hate the Kims and hate having to prop them up. It would be the Korean War all over again, except that China has far more resources and better technology relative to us than they did in the 1950s. And given the current situation of NATO and SEATO, nobody would have the balls to help us.

(2.) The North Koreans have literally thousands of artillery tubes trained on Seoul. They'd shell it to rubble even at the slightest hint that U.S./ROK forces had started moving across the DMZ. This, more than a nuclear capability, is the reason why the U.S. can never invade the North.

(3.) The DPRK has an extremely sneaky intelligence force that could easily get into place to carry out attacks of sabotage, possibly with chemical or biological weapons. This could be done against the South Koreans, but possibly against us as well. We also don't know what types of terrorist assets they have elsewhere in the world to use against us or our allies.

All this because of a skirmish that kills two South Korean soldier? No thank you.

[k9870]

Not due to two deaths, due to the millions over time of their own people the regime has murdered. Due to the millions who will continue to die. And Russia and China aren't going to come militarily to the aid of North Korea, sure they'll raise a fuss but:

A. Russia and China hate each other, they'd never work together.

B. Being an ally of North Korea doesn't have enough benefit to risk war.

[S&Wshooter]

We need to just make it clear to North Korea that if they keep trying to start a war, there will no longer be a North Korea, only an unihabitable nuclear wasteland

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by k9870

Not due to two deaths, due to the millions over time of their own people the regime has murdered. Due to the millions who will continue to die. And Russia and China aren't going to come militarily to the aid of North Korea, sure they'll raise a fuss but:

A. Russia and China hate each other, they'd never work together.

B. Being an ally of North Korea doesn't have enough benefit to risk war.

Russia and China do not "hate" each other, they distrust each other and remain rivals (not enemies). But that doesn't change the fact that they do have some mutual strategic interests, and North Korea happens to be one of those. China and Russia have kept the Kims in power on the Korean peninsula because they regard the DPRK as a buffer against U.S. and Japanese military power in the region. As long as the Kims are militarily weak but unpredictable and bellicose, it keeps the U.S. from establishing complete dominance in the region.

Another problem (for China) is that if the regime collapsed, millions of North Koreans would flood China, which would have a serious economic impact and also possibly lead to civil war in the provinces which the refugees entered (Chinese in the border provinces hate Koreans already). The Chinese have enough issues with internal stability as-is.

So no, North Korea is extremely important to China and Russia, and they will go to war to keep the U.S. and South Korea out of it.

Originally Posted by S&Wshooter

We need to just make it clear to North Korea that if they keep trying to start a war, there will no longer be a North Korea, only an unihabitable nuclear wasteland

They're not trying to start a war. As I've said, when this stuff happens, it's a result of internal tensions with the regime.

[k9870]

Gotta try and start an internal revolution there. Too bad they grow up brainwashed.

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by k9870

Gotta try and start an internal revolution there. Too bad they grow up brainwashed.

I'm not even sure it would matter much if they didn't. Syngman Rhee (the dictator who we kept in power through the 1950s and 60s) was almost as crazy as Kim il-Sung, and he also had populist appeal. I also know a couple of exchange students from Seoul, and they say that while most of the cosmopolitan, urbanized population is pro-democracy, the rural, less educated Koreans tend to be crazy nationalist ultra-religious zealots. Exactly the kinds of people, in other words, who tend to support dictators. Even in the 1950s and 60s, the DPRK regime had a lot of support in South Korea, and their intelligence services tried to start a Viet Cong-style rebellion during the 1970s after Rhee stepped down and his successors didn't have his appeal.

What's even more ridiculous is that in spite of how long we've protected South Korea from the North, and how much money we've given them, a majority of the South Korean population vehemently hates us. If you think Europeans are ungrateful anti-American morons, you should hear what I've heard about Koreans' attitudes towards Americans.

The impression I get is that Korean culture is just naturally crazy, authoritarian, and anti-Western. And the Koreans I've talked to pretty much agree with me.

[k9870]

I laugh at the news when I see "South threatens retaliation if another attack happens."

This was said when they sank a destroyer with a torpedo attack, nothing happened. The south should bomb a military post in the north.