M16A4 in the Army

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by jdun

The latest news is that Mexico are getting AR for the USA. These Mexican's drug gangs are using full auto AR. So I doubt it was made from the USA.

In the US full auto AR cost well over 25k each if you can get someone to sell it to you. Those full auto AR are made in Mexico by Mexicans. If you're a drug lord, which would be cheaper? Buy a 10k CNC milling machine and produce all the full auto AR that you like. Or try find someone in the USA willing to sell you a full auto AR for at least 25k and then smuggle it back to Mexico?

You could always buy a semi AR and convert it. Also, I've seen pictures of confiscated arms in Mexico. I see plenty of ARs with 16" barrels, which is the U.S. civvie-required length.

Most of the sources I've seen claim that a majority of the guns in Mexico (used by both cartels and civilians looking for protection) are coming from the States, although it's hard to get an exact percentage.

[Phoenixent]

Originally Posted by MT2008

You could always buy a semi AR and convert it. Also, I've seen pictures of confiscated arms in Mexico. I see plenty of ARs with 16" barrels, which is the U.S. civvie-required length.

Most of the sources I've seen claim that a majority of the guns in Mexico (used by both cartels and civilians looking for protection) are coming from the States, although it's hard to get an exact percentage.

There is also a lot of weapons coming out of the Mexican Military and Police. I would like to see the photos on the AR carbines to see if they are LE models sent down to the Mexican Police. I know of a Colt 9mm SMG that was sent to El Salvador that was confiscated in a drug house in LA. I had it in my hand looking it over and it was mint. The drug cartel got it when they arrived.

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by Phoenixent

There is also a lot of weapons coming out of the Mexican Military and Police. I would like to see the photos on the AR carbines to see if they are LE models sent down to the Mexican Police. I know of a Colt 9mm SMG that was sent to El Salvador that was confiscated in a drug house in LA. I had it in my hand looking it over and it was mint. The drug cartel got it when they arrived.

Here's one pic:


http://www.daylife.com/photo/08mz3GZcAV9bk

Some of these look like they're probably mil-spec/LEO, but quite a few seem to be civvie types. It is true that the cartels are definitely not getting their stuff only from U.S. gun stores, but there are definitely lots of weapons that they are acquiring over here. The Five-Sevens and PS90 carbines (the "matapolicias", as they call them) are almost surely being bought over here.

Also, I live in Texas, and some of the local FFLs here have actually talked about suspicious people buying guns in their stores, who they suspect might be willing to sell them across the border. It used to be something of a taboo to discuss, I understand, but there's been a lot more chatter about the issue lately.

[Phoenixent]

Originally Posted by MT2008

Here's one pic:


http://www.daylife.com/photo/08mz3GZcAV9bk

Some of these look like they're probably mil-spec/LEO, but quite a few seem to be civvie types. It is true that the cartels are definitely not getting their stuff only from U.S. gun stores, but there are definitely lots of weapons that they are acquiring over here. The Five-Sevens and PS90 carbines (the "matapolicias", as they call them) are almost surely being bought over here.

Also, I live in Texas, and some of the local FFLs here have actually talked about suspicious people buying guns in their stores, who they suspect might be willing to sell them across the border. It used to be something of a taboo to discuss, I understand, but there's been a lot more chatter about the issue lately.

There is a lot of Colt LEO carbines 16" barrel notched for the M203 with late style buttstocks. I don't know it the Mexican Government actually captured those or put on a dog and pony show like Ruby Ridge. You take a few weapons that are captured and add your own hoping no one would notice. What I find interesting on the photos is the amount of LEO there are in the small sample. Colt has a six month back log on LEO due to so many PD's buying them for the patrol cars. The other thing that funny with this is the Mexican Government refused to give the serial numbers to ATF so there is no way to cross check where this stuff is coming from.

You know that can't be in Mexico as Guns are outlawed in Mexico.

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by Phoenixent

There is a lot of Colt LEO carbines 16" barrel notched for the M203 with late style buttstocks. I don't know it the Mexican Government actually captured those or put on a dog and pony show like Ruby Ridge. You take a few weapons that are captured and add your own hoping no one would notice. What I find interesting on the photos is the amount of LEO there are in the small sample. Colt has a six month back log on LEO due to so many PD's buying them for the patrol cars. The other thing that funny with this is the Mexican Government refused to give the serial numbers to ATF so there is no way to cross check where this stuff is coming from.

You know that can't be in Mexico as Guns are outlawed in Mexico.

First of all, I forgot that Colt's LEO carbines still have 16" barrels.

However, are you sure those are all Colts? Some of them might be Bushmasters or Olympic Arms ARs.

[Phoenixent]

Originally Posted by MT2008

First of all, I forgot that Colt's LEO carbines still have 16" barrels.

However, are you sure those are all Colts? Some of them might be Bushmasters or Olympic Arms ARs.

You are correct it could be other makes on the LEO carbines my bad. I still have a hard time with the number confiscated when they can't control the drug cartel at the border. Also have you heard about the Mexican troop defending runners on our side of the border armed with their G36 clones?

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by Phoenixent

You are correct it could be other makes on the LEO carbines my bad. I still have a hard time with the number confiscated when they can't control the drug cartel at the border. Also have you heard about the Mexican troop defending runners on our side of the border armed with their G36 clones?

I haven't, but it definitely wouldn't surprise me if it was true. If you think the Mexican government's stats on guns confiscated are bullshit, you should see their stats on official corruption.

[jdun]

There is actually no proof that most of the guns that are in Mexico came from the USA illegally.

I would like to see the serial numbers and roll marks on all the guns that was taken by the drug runners. I bet you only a minority of it came from the USA. The rest are made in Mexico by Mexicans.

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by jdun

There is actually no proof that most of the guns that are in Mexico came from the USA illegally.

I would like to see the serial numbers and roll marks on all the guns that was taken by the drug runners. I bet you only a minority of it came from the USA. The rest are made in Mexico by Mexicans.

The estimates are all over the place. I don't trust the ones given by the Mexican government, but most sources I looked at agree a majority are guns that were bought in U.S. gun stores.

Also, I doubt most of them are manufactured by the Mexicans. I've seen quite a few pictures of arms caches confiscated by the authorities, and I've seen stuff like gold-plated 1911s and Desert Eagles, FN PS90 carbines and Five-Seven pistols, old "post-ban" AKs with the thumbhole stocks, and some type of AR pistol. I can't imagine that the Mexicans are making those. It may be possible, but the weapons simply look way too much like the ones I've seen for sale on the 'Net, and at my local FFLs. I'm not sure Mexicans have the same sort of experience building guns as the Pushtun in Central Asia.

I have seen lots of stuff that they aren't getting from the U.S., however - GPMGs, RPG-7s, PKMs, LAW rockets, various types of grenades. Also plenty of short-barreled AR-15 variants (which wouldn't be legal in the U.S.) and H&Ks.

[MT2008]

Also, here's a Five-Seven confiscated from a cartel arms stash:



In this one, you can actually see the serial number - it wasn't even filed off. You can also see that the gun is marked "FNH-USA". The caption beside the photo on the web site says that the guns were captured while being smuggled across the border.