M16A4 in the Army

[MT2008]

Point taken on "Lord of War". I have heard (not from a movie) that the U.S. left behind many M16s in Vietnam, so I figured it would make sense if the same happened in Lebanon. But that's what I get for trusting Hollywood.

Hezbollah actually runs gun factories? I do realize that many of the militants manufacture weapons, but I always figured the stuff they made was pretty simple. The rockets and RPGs I see are crude stuff, so I never would have imagined they could build something like an M4 (like that one Hezbollah gunman is holding) and build all the plastic parts and all that.

AKs would be simple to make, though - I have seen images of tribesmen in Pakistan (mostly NWFP and FATA) who can make exact copies of the AKM and Type 56. They're pretty good copies, too, although I think they lack chrome-lined barrels.

[jdun]

I do apologize if I came in too strong with my comments. It was not my intention.

I believe there was only 1,800 or so Marines that was stationed in Lebanon between 1982-1984. There wasn't much to be left behind by the Marines. The arms assistant program did provide lots of weapons to the Lebanese government. You still see government troops using A1 or A2 rifles and US armored vehicles.

Hezbollah makes their weapons in their own home, business shops, schools, etc. Not a full blown weapon factory per said.

AK receiver are made out of 1mm sheet metal. You can buy AK flats for around $13.00-$50.00 each depending on where it came from without the needs for FFL transfer.

http://www.copesdistributing.net/ind...sort=2a&page=1

For AR, the lower can be built on any material that is strong enough to hold the the upper and trigger pack. I've seen pictures where the lower receiver was built with wood. They can get away with it because the lower receiver is stress free.

Here one that was built from a cutting board.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3chSzLxPuzU

Anyway great site that back their information with proofs (picture still from movie). Keep up the good work!

[MT2008]

"Too strong"? What?

I have heard the South Lebanese Army receives surplus American and Israeli M16 rifles (mostly A1s and A2s), and I figured this was the primary source of such weapons for Hezbollah gunmen.

As far as AKs go, I agree those are quite easy to manufacture compared to AR-15s/M16s. I've even encouraged my Dad to try and built a receiver himself (he wouldn't bother with the flat) and complete the rest with an AK parts kit. Though I'm sure he could build the entire thing from scratch if need-be.

Glad you like our site!

[jdun]

The whole international small arms smuggler is overblown. In the past I have seen Youtube videos where third world kids are making AKs and selling them for $50 in weapons market. Who wants to buy an $800 AK from an international small arms smuggler when you can go get one for $50 in the open arms market. Support the local economy you know.

Most third world killings are done with blade and blunt weapons. If you look at all the genocide in Africa, you will find by far the weapon of choice are blade and blunt weapons.

The latest news is that Mexico are getting AR for the USA. These Mexican's drug gangs are using full auto AR. So I doubt it was made from the USA.

In the US full auto AR cost well over 25k each if you can get someone to sell it to you. Those full auto AR are made in Mexico by Mexicans. If you're a drug lord, which would be cheaper? Buy a 10k CNC milling machine and produce all the full auto AR that you like. Or try find someone in the USA willing to sell you a full auto AR for at least 25k and then smuggle it back to Mexico?

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by jdun

The latest news is that Mexico are getting AR for the USA. These Mexican's drug gangs are using full auto AR. So I doubt it was made from the USA.

In the US full auto AR cost well over 25k each if you can get someone to sell it to you. Those full auto AR are made in Mexico by Mexicans. If you're a drug lord, which would be cheaper? Buy a 10k CNC milling machine and produce all the full auto AR that you like. Or try find someone in the USA willing to sell you a full auto AR for at least 25k and then smuggle it back to Mexico?

You could always buy a semi AR and convert it. Also, I've seen pictures of confiscated arms in Mexico. I see plenty of ARs with 16" barrels, which is the U.S. civvie-required length.

Most of the sources I've seen claim that a majority of the guns in Mexico (used by both cartels and civilians looking for protection) are coming from the States, although it's hard to get an exact percentage.

[Phoenixent]

Originally Posted by MT2008

You could always buy a semi AR and convert it. Also, I've seen pictures of confiscated arms in Mexico. I see plenty of ARs with 16" barrels, which is the U.S. civvie-required length.

Most of the sources I've seen claim that a majority of the guns in Mexico (used by both cartels and civilians looking for protection) are coming from the States, although it's hard to get an exact percentage.

There is also a lot of weapons coming out of the Mexican Military and Police. I would like to see the photos on the AR carbines to see if they are LE models sent down to the Mexican Police. I know of a Colt 9mm SMG that was sent to El Salvador that was confiscated in a drug house in LA. I had it in my hand looking it over and it was mint. The drug cartel got it when they arrived.

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by Phoenixent

There is also a lot of weapons coming out of the Mexican Military and Police. I would like to see the photos on the AR carbines to see if they are LE models sent down to the Mexican Police. I know of a Colt 9mm SMG that was sent to El Salvador that was confiscated in a drug house in LA. I had it in my hand looking it over and it was mint. The drug cartel got it when they arrived.

Here's one pic:


http://www.daylife.com/photo/08mz3GZcAV9bk

Some of these look like they're probably mil-spec/LEO, but quite a few seem to be civvie types. It is true that the cartels are definitely not getting their stuff only from U.S. gun stores, but there are definitely lots of weapons that they are acquiring over here. The Five-Sevens and PS90 carbines (the "matapolicias", as they call them) are almost surely being bought over here.

Also, I live in Texas, and some of the local FFLs here have actually talked about suspicious people buying guns in their stores, who they suspect might be willing to sell them across the border. It used to be something of a taboo to discuss, I understand, but there's been a lot more chatter about the issue lately.

[jdun]

There is actually no proof that most of the guns that are in Mexico came from the USA illegally.

I would like to see the serial numbers and roll marks on all the guns that was taken by the drug runners. I bet you only a minority of it came from the USA. The rest are made in Mexico by Mexicans.

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by jdun

There is actually no proof that most of the guns that are in Mexico came from the USA illegally.

I would like to see the serial numbers and roll marks on all the guns that was taken by the drug runners. I bet you only a minority of it came from the USA. The rest are made in Mexico by Mexicans.

The estimates are all over the place. I don't trust the ones given by the Mexican government, but most sources I looked at agree a majority are guns that were bought in U.S. gun stores.

Also, I doubt most of them are manufactured by the Mexicans. I've seen quite a few pictures of arms caches confiscated by the authorities, and I've seen stuff like gold-plated 1911s and Desert Eagles, FN PS90 carbines and Five-Seven pistols, old "post-ban" AKs with the thumbhole stocks, and some type of AR pistol. I can't imagine that the Mexicans are making those. It may be possible, but the weapons simply look way too much like the ones I've seen for sale on the 'Net, and at my local FFLs. I'm not sure Mexicans have the same sort of experience building guns as the Pushtun in Central Asia.

I have seen lots of stuff that they aren't getting from the U.S., however - GPMGs, RPG-7s, PKMs, LAW rockets, various types of grenades. Also plenty of short-barreled AR-15 variants (which wouldn't be legal in the U.S.) and H&Ks.