imfdb.org  

Go Back   imfdb.org > The Forum > Just Guns

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-29-2016, 02:30 PM
Excalibur's Avatar
Excalibur Excalibur is offline
IMFDB Admin
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 3,842
Send a message via AIM to Excalibur Send a message via MSN to Excalibur Send a message via Yahoo to Excalibur
Default The XM8

Anybody still think the XM8 is cool?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0enyMTjWmI
__________________

"There's a fine line between not listening and not caring...I like to think I walk that line everyday of my life."

Blessed be the LORD, my rock, Who trains my hands for war, And my fingers for battle
Psalm 144:1

“It is always wrong to use force, unless it is more wrong not to.”
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-29-2016, 03:55 PM
SPEMack618 SPEMack618 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Georgia
Posts: 742
Default

Nope. Didn't think it was cool to being with. Nor the G-36.

How some ever, I do love me some -416/-417 goodness
__________________
I like to think, that before that Navy SEAL double tapped bin Laden in the head, he kicked him, so that we could truly say we put a boot in his ass.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-29-2016, 09:31 PM
Excalibur's Avatar
Excalibur Excalibur is offline
IMFDB Admin
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 3,842
Send a message via AIM to Excalibur Send a message via MSN to Excalibur Send a message via Yahoo to Excalibur
Default

At least you can get a civilian 416/417...for an HK price...which I don't want to pay it. I'll stick to my AR
__________________

"There's a fine line between not listening and not caring...I like to think I walk that line everyday of my life."

Blessed be the LORD, my rock, Who trains my hands for war, And my fingers for battle
Psalm 144:1

“It is always wrong to use force, unless it is more wrong not to.”
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-29-2016, 10:12 PM
Mazryonh Mazryonh is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 290
Default

I liked the XM8's concept and thought it had a lot of potential. It did rather well in the various tests it was subjected to, but the various competitions held to replace the M4A1 never picked a winner. Apparently General Petraeus asked to keep one for himself when he was watching an XM8 demonstration. Did he get to keep it given what happened to him later?

Anyway, while it's in service with a few small forces, parts of it have survived elsewhere, such as the related HK416 series of rifles. I wonder if the USMC-adopted M27 IAR's role could have been filled by the XM8 LMG variant.

I remember hearing that the PCAP accessory attachment system the XM8 used could retain a sight's zero even if it was removed and replaced. Was that ever tested to see if XM8 users could swap in a sight with magnification and one without magnification to see if the zero was not affected? We have magnifiers that can be moved into or out of the user's field when placed behind an optical sight now, but I'd like to know if this kind of sight-swapping might allow for a lighter load, as well as allowing one to carry a backup optical sight in case of battery failure or damage to the optical sight.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-05-2016, 01:30 PM
SPEMack618 SPEMack618 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Georgia
Posts: 742
Default

I have deep reservations about any weapon system that might melt while I'm using it.

I'm not a raging M-4 fanboi, however, I don't believe that the SCAR-L, XM-8, ACR, or the like have enough qualitative advantages to justify the cost of completely swapping over to them.
__________________
I like to think, that before that Navy SEAL double tapped bin Laden in the head, he kicked him, so that we could truly say we put a boot in his ass.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-05-2016, 02:42 PM
Excalibur's Avatar
Excalibur Excalibur is offline
IMFDB Admin
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 3,842
Send a message via AIM to Excalibur Send a message via MSN to Excalibur Send a message via Yahoo to Excalibur
Default

The SCAR and the ACR have survived extreme temp tests, but I believe the SCAR was picked because it was cheaper and lighter than the ACR, which was made heavier from the Masada.

Both the SCAR and the newer ACR have a metal upper receiver where the action is so it isn't like they are going to "melt" The XM8 is more of a spin off of the G36, so it's almost entirely "plastic".

I've seen MG36s run hundreds of rounds without melting.

In the end, it's mostly costs and lack of great improvements that is why the military isn't switching to newer rifles. My gripe with the SCAR is the reciprocating charging handle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazryonh View Post

Anyway, while it's in service with a few small forces, parts of it have survived elsewhere, such as the related HK416 series of rifles. I wonder if the USMC-adopted M27 IAR's role could have been filled by the XM8 LMG variant.

I think the Marines adopting the M27 IAR is to go back to a lighter weapon system similar to the BAR, though I think the unofficial reason is for costs. The M27 costs less than the SAWs they are replacing, though for an "automatic rifle" role I would think they would play with the idea of larger capacity mags than standard 30 rounds.
__________________

"There's a fine line between not listening and not caring...I like to think I walk that line everyday of my life."

Blessed be the LORD, my rock, Who trains my hands for war, And my fingers for battle
Psalm 144:1

“It is always wrong to use force, unless it is more wrong not to.”

Last edited by Excalibur; 05-05-2016 at 02:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-05-2016, 04:11 PM
funkychinaman's Avatar
funkychinaman funkychinaman is offline
IMFDB & Forum Admin
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 2,616
Default

I was puzzled by the IAR requirements. Lighter, magazine fed, more accurate, weren't these considered drawbacks in the L86 LSW? Drawbacks which pushed the British Army to adopt the SAW?
__________________
"Me fail English? That's unpossible!"
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-05-2016, 07:32 PM
Excalibur's Avatar
Excalibur Excalibur is offline
IMFDB Admin
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 3,842
Send a message via AIM to Excalibur Send a message via MSN to Excalibur Send a message via Yahoo to Excalibur
Default

I think the difference is that the M27 is actually lighter than the L86 and more practical compared to the L86.

I just don't like the idea now that you got a weapon that's filling the role of a SAW without the higher firepower of magazine capacity or the ability to quick change barrels
__________________

"There's a fine line between not listening and not caring...I like to think I walk that line everyday of my life."

Blessed be the LORD, my rock, Who trains my hands for war, And my fingers for battle
Psalm 144:1

“It is always wrong to use force, unless it is more wrong not to.”
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-06-2016, 01:15 AM
Mandolin Mandolin is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 147
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
I think the Marines adopting the M27 IAR is to go back to a lighter weapon system similar to the BAR, though I think the unofficial reason is for costs.
Except using a BAR to support other BARs doesn't make sense, and that's what using the M27 and M4 together is.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-06-2016, 11:22 AM
commando552 commando552 is offline
IMFDB Admin
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: England
Posts: 546
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandolin View Post
Except using a BAR to support other BARs doesn't make sense, and that's what using the M27 and M4 together is.
That isn't really fair, the M27 is far more suitable to automatic fire than an M4 due to the piston gas system and longer barrel with heavier profile. An M4 would overheat much more quickly than an M27.

As for comparing the M27 to L86, one of the differences here is that the M27 is intended to replace some SAWs which IMHO it is totally unsuitable for. With the L86 on the other hand, it was not actually replacing a machine gun, in fact it was replacing some rifles to augment the GPMGs which were still there. The problem is though that what you generally want a squad machine gun for is suppression, and both of the weapons in question are too accurate with too small a magazine to do this very well.

I think the L86A2 is actually a pretty good weapon, it just needs to be used correctly, in that it is really more of a DMR or for doing more targeted suppression of a firing point or something like that. In recent testing the army is actually tending to veer back towards using a DMR optimised version of the L86A2 rather than the L129A1 which hasn't performed as well as was initially hoped.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.