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  #11  
Old 07-19-2011, 01:18 AM
Yournamehere Yournamehere is offline
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Honestly I was not in favor of censoring the quotes in the first place and I'm still not, even if high profile people come on here. Keeping personal swearing to a minimum so as to keep professional is one thing, and I support that, but all due respect, if they're part of the film industry they should consider that the quotes aren't ours and don't reflect the user or admin base, granted we do pick which quotes show and which don't, but most of them are pretty iconic and just NEED to be included if anything is to be. They should also consider that those quotes are part of art made by artists and it's not fair to want to see their work censored.

As far as the professional nature of the site is concerned, a lot of the pages, including some major ones, lack an aesthetic of professionalism, and we're a Wiki as well, so even if we censor swear words we have a dozen other things that can potentially make us seem up-professional, and at the end of the day, we are, since it's a Wiki and it's more or less free for anyone to edit, and as such there's irregular uniformity. Back to the matter at hand though, if people can't handle some swear words in iconic movie quotes, I say we just get rid of them, especially if they are going to be butchered with asterisks. I'd sooner see no quotes on the site at all like MPM is suggesting then to see them that way. It sucks the life out of them and makes this site too PG for the content we represent (firearms useage to a minimal extent, as well as R-Rated movies and the like).

tl;dr: Just get rid of the quotes completely.
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  #12  
Old 07-19-2011, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yournamehere View Post
I'd sooner see no quotes on the site at all like MPM is suggesting then to see them that way. It sucks the life out of them and makes this site too PG for the content we represent (firearms useage to a minimal extent, as well as R-Rated movies and the like).
Of course you are free to speak your mind, but consider your ALL OR NOTHING attitude. I'd rather be worried about WRONG info, or some of the juvenile stuff that we missed, than this (IMHO) irrelevant issue. I for one question how NOT tossing the F bomb everywhere makes us less legitimate. Please. I'm going to start asking for everyone's age. Between 14-18 think a certain way, between 18-30 think a certain way, etc. Since many members NEVER contemplate how IMFDB is seen to other professionals in the industry, let me just reiterate this point from the Rule and Regs:

"IMFDB is an information resource, not our private playground

This is a source of Information for weapons and movie buffs around the world. Certainly it is tempting to think of IMFDB as one's own personal 'playground' but please realize that we do this work to serve others."
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  #13  
Old 07-19-2011, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoviePropMaster2008 View Post
Of course the valid question is: Does IMDB allow profane quotes? Yes, but IMDB is a behemoth with MILLIONS of users each day (and only 17 mods). There is too much of IMDB that is used for by industry professionals, the 'quotes' section is a very SMALL portion of the site's footprint. Note that PROFANITY is frowned upon in the 'reviews' section or the 'summary' section .... the sections that the general public sees first.
Errrrrm...Are we looking at the same IMDB here?

They seem just fine with this word when it appears in movie titles, and even this one gets a free pass. (You might want to not have anyone easily offended looking over your shoulder before clicking that).

They seem to have the same policy I'd prefer; users can't swear, but movies can. In the interests of accuracy, you report exactly what is said. Openly censoring encourages further censorship, and I really don't think it'll look professional if our Sin City page is talking about a character called "Yellow B*****d."

28 over here. My take on this is I find "starring" looks childish; everyone knows what you mean, so either say it or don't say it. I agree with you that the kind of swearing-as-punctuation that Oliveira (since we all know who you mean) used was excessive and pointless and should be discouraged (in the kid's defence, according to his user page he actually was 14), but I'm with Yournamehere; if we don't want to quote the line precisely as it was said, we shouldn't quote it at all. Also, since I cap videogames with the subtitles on, some of my screencaps might have profanity in them, and putting little black boxes over words is just going to look silly.

Last edited by Evil Tim; 07-19-2011 at 08:00 AM.
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  #14  
Old 07-19-2011, 08:01 AM
Yournamehere Yournamehere is offline
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I say the following with utmost sincerity, no mean tone or anything.

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Originally Posted by MoviePropMaster2008 View Post
Of course you are free to speak your mind, but consider your ALL OR NOTHING attitude.
It's all, nothing, or a compromise I find unreasonable and unfair to the quotes themselves for the reasons I've already stated. With all being their censorship and nothing being them gone completely, I say nothing.

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Originally Posted by MoviePropMaster2008 View Post
I'd rather be worried about WRONG info, or some of the juvenile stuff that we missed, than this (IMHO) irrelevant issue.
I'm worried about that stuff too, but the quotes are on the front page and are one of the first things visitors to the site see. For every professional in the industry I'm sure we have dozens if not hundreds or thousands of regular people who will probably look at us and either laugh or question why a site that documents fictional gun usage and murder would worry about the F word in an instance where an actor said it as in a quote. We're not liable for that wording, save for allowing the quotes to be posted, but, again, it's art, and most of the quotes worth posting have swear words in them. Perhaps some people have kids coming on here and of course we have these people from the industry, but not having the quotes at all gives them nothing to get offended by just as well, if not more, than the words still there and censored.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoviePropMaster2008 View Post
I for one question how NOT tossing the F bomb everywhere makes us less legitimate.
I don't think it should be tossed around either, but allowing the preservation of quotes with swear words is not tossing it around. And again, if they're gone, it doesn't make us less legitimate either, to use the same argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoviePropMaster2008 View Post
Since many members NEVER contemplate how IMFDB is seen to other professionals in the industry, let me just reiterate this point from the Rule and Regs:

"IMFDB is an information resource, not our private playground

This is a source of Information for weapons and movie buffs around the world. Certainly it is tempting to think of IMFDB as one's own personal 'playground' but please realize that we do this work to serve others."
I don't think of this place as my playground at all, I totally get the desire and the need to be mature and objective about the site. That being said, if we have to stick to the idea that IMFDB is just guns in movies, and not an encyclopedia for guns or movies, then again, getting rid of the quotes doesn't harm the site, as some of the ones I've seen don't even mention guns by name, or their firearms referencing is broad or inaccurate anyway, which works against being accurate or specific, something we should be doing for the site. Their contribution is minimal at the very best and certainly not as valuable as the Did You Know section or a Featured Page.

Looking/being professional is important, but getting rid of the censored quotes can only help that and keep us from looking silly to the rest of the IMFDB audience to whom we also cater.

If you're requesting ages too, I'm 19 for what (little) it's worth. I also agree with Tim's input as well.

Last edited by Yournamehere; 07-19-2011 at 08:04 AM.
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  #15  
Old 07-19-2011, 08:03 AM
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I'm not html savvy enough to know how to do this, but I think a good compromise on the matter would be one of those word blocker highlights.

If something is obscene or offensive, a highlight will go over it saying "NSFW", and if one wishes to view that word or phrase, they just hover their cursor over it and the highlight goes away.

If someone knows how to do that on this style wiki, think that would work? It'd be useful for spoilers too.

It's by no means a vault blocking all virgin eyes from locked away corruptions, but it would at least put the option in the hands of the viewers, insteading of compromising our reputation.
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  #16  
Old 07-19-2011, 08:06 AM
Yournamehere Yournamehere is offline
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If we're gonna do that, we might as well take the swear quotes off the main page and do the disclaimer I proposed on the front page, in the Rules, or both, especially since some people supported the idea when I brought it up the first time this was an issue. It'll be simpler and all encompassing of the site and all of the content with which people can have a problem with, swear words, people getting shot and everything in between.

Or perhaps there's a way to make a "safe" version of the site and allow people to toggle it.
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  #17  
Old 07-19-2011, 08:16 AM
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I'm still not sure how this is supposed to adversely affect our reputation; the handful of f-bombs on this wiki have in some cases been here for years without causing the End of All Things at any point along the line. I don't think we should change a policy that worked (quoting accurately) because of a puritanical vandal whose other edits are about 80% garbage and who doesn't know the difference between a clip and a magazine.
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  #18  
Old 07-19-2011, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Tim View Post
I'm still not sure how this is supposed to adversely affect our reputation; the handful of f-bombs on this wiki have in some cases been here for years without causing the End of All Things at any point along the line. I don't think we should change a policy that worked (quoting accurately) because of a puritanical vandal whose other edits are about 80% garbage and who doesn't know the difference between a clip and a magazine.
I think the issue is that, because people in the industry have likely heard word of this site or been recommended it, it's a negative thing for them to come across this site and see it's filled with language. It could be viewed as unprofessional, and hurt our reputation and the reputation of those who recommended the site.

Do I agree with the censorship? No. But I understand the concept that even if I don't believe in censorship, I won't keep a job at a respectable business very long if I tell my boss my favorite version of "The Aristocrats" joke. Not everyone has the same outlook on things. Some people see curse words as words, some see them as super offensive and immature forms of expression. Sometimes, you have to bite the bullet to make some sort of compromise.

As MPM said, this site is not our personal playground, and if a majority see it fit to censor profanity to maintain our positive image and professionalism, we should act accordingly and solve the issue.
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  #19  
Old 07-19-2011, 08:38 AM
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Yes, but the manner in which it's been bought up still bothers me: no matter how you put it, it feels like we're letting an extremely immature and borderline-useless user get his way if we go along with this.
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  #20  
Old 07-20-2011, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Evil Tim View Post
Yes, but the manner in which it's been bought up still bothers me: no matter how you put it, it feels like we're letting an extremely immature and borderline-useless user get his way if we go along with this.
Okay, I think we should codify a standard that fits the general (not the exceptions) for American Broadcast television. That should make everyone happy (help me out with suggestions folks). The problem is that we suddenly have a new member who (i think) has good intentions but is rubbing other members the wrong way with censoring foul language all over the place. Unfortunately, some of this language is acceptable (if it is acceptable during PRIME TIME on network AMERICAN TV, we should accept it here).

I know on paper this looks weird, but bear with me:

Censored words:
Fuck
Shit (used 'once' on NCIS and never again)
Cunt
Blowjob (though technically NOT a profanity but an explicit noun for a sexual act, better safe than sorry).
Asshole (used on cable but not free broadcast)


Words that are not censored on Broadcast TV anymore:

Bitch
Son of a Bitch (or any spelling variant)
Bastard
Anal
Goddam (Used to be taboo in the 1970s, you could say 'Damn" but now I hear it all the time on TV, again, profane but from a purely religious perspective)
Faggot (usually any epithet creates uproar NOT because it is profane but because it offends a specific group)
Nigger (unfortunately most epithets are accurate descriptors of people's prejudices from various points in history, including today. This was a common term in the 19th century and was used by Mark Twain, so it stays).
Any racial epithet (Again, these are not considered profane, just offensive)

more suggestions?.....

Last edited by MoviePropMaster2008; 07-20-2011 at 07:57 PM.
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