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Old 06-04-2009, 04:29 AM
Phoenixent Phoenixent is offline
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: California
Posts: 164

Originally Posted by jdun View Post
I'm sure you built over a thousand AR in your life time.

Piston doesn't reduce fouling in a gun. It change where the fouling is located. The fouling doesn't magically disappear in piston gun. I shot my AKs and you know where all the fouling is located? The piston and the piston tube.

The SCAR use a modified AR18 action. It's nothing new. Just a different stock.
I agree that it is nothing new to the SCAR gas system. It is true that a piston system can take more abuse then the DI system. The DI systems has always had an inherit weakness to it between the gas tube and the gas key. Both parts are just a flimsy design more prone to damage in the hands of a soldier. But again even though the DI system is fragile it is not a problem for both civilians and law enforcement. As for the AK fouling I had some AK's that East German ammo was used on which is very corrosive. The piston was frozen in the tube we so we just hit the bolt handle with a rubber mallet. The piston came free and the weapon was fired right after with out any other service done to it.

Don't get me wrong I love the AR system as I have been working on them since 1975 but there is always room for improvement.
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Old 06-04-2009, 04:47 AM
jdun jdun is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 101

I don't know how a kid would mess up the gas tube and gas key. It's not like they can take it apart without tools.

Come on if the AR15 was so prone to breaking we would see more dead kids coming back home from over 8 years in Iraq. Your chance of getting killed in a major city like DC is higher then your chance in Iraq (at the height).

Again fouling doesn't magically disappear. It just get relocated. Fouling for AR15 DI is in the bolt because that's where the cylinder is located and that's where the gas goes in. Fouling for rifle piston and not just AK but all piston rifles is located in the piston and piston tube. That's where the gas enter and stop.

Last edited by jdun; 06-04-2009 at 05:10 AM.
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Old 06-04-2009, 04:56 AM
jdun jdun is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 101

Originally Posted by Spartan198 View Post
As much as I do like the SCAR, my stance on it remains the same. I still have my suspicions that this "Special Operations rifle" (the 5.56 version at least, I imagine the 7.62 version will see some use) might end up sharing the same fate as the Mark 23...

What I don't get is that if SOCOM wanted a gas piston so bad, why didn't they just buy an HK or LWRC upper, slap it on an M4 lower, and be done with it at a fraction of the cost?

Well, chances are HK would charge out the ass for theirs, but I'm sure you'll understand my point.

Or maybe I just answered my own question or something, I don't know. They deemed this civvy unfit for military service...
The SCAR weakness like all AR18 action is in the recoil spring. The AR18 action require two recoil springs to function property. One recoil spring can't handle the load for long. It will loose its strength around 800 rounds or so depending on the quality of the spring.

Once the elastic limited been broken, more malfunctions will occur.

The modified AR18 action in the SCAR probably added a thousand round or two before the limit will be reach. I doubt it because I get the impression from the report that he wasn't the only one that is experience a high rate of malfunctions.
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