imfdb.org  

Go Back   imfdb.org > The Forum > Just Guns

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-09-2013, 12:26 AM
Spartan198's Avatar
Spartan198 Spartan198 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The failed state of California
Posts: 2,163
Default Theoretical: The SOCOM M4A1 post-adoption of the FN AC

As most of you here probably know, a modified version of the SCAR-L termed the AC, or Advanced Carbine, was entered into the Army's Individual Carbine competition.



And as we all know, SOCOM previously decided against ordering the SCAR-L since it doesn't do anything that a well maintained M4A1 won't. But I got to thinking, if the FN AC were actually adopted as the new standard US Army carbine, what would this mean for the M4s in SOCOM's inventory? Would they maintain it as their standard 5.56mm carbine (while the M4 becomes a second-tier weapon in the regular forces) or would there be a backtrack in SCAR-L acquisition by SOCOM? I can't see them accepting the FN AC since the charging handle was modified to be non-reciprocating, removal of a key feature that SOCOM specifically wanted. Or would they? Or would they take the opportunity to standardize the HK416 as organization-wide issue?

I realize SOCOM and FN are working on a 5.56mm caliber conversion for the SCAR-H, but let's say for the purpose of this discussion that it hits a dead end/gets canned/we go to war with Belgium over who makes a better waffle and FN decides to no longer supply us with guns/whatever, what happens?

Just for the record, I'm not expecting anything except maybe a piston-driven M4 out of the IC competition.
__________________
"The gun has played a critical role in history. An invention which has been praised and denounced... served hero and villain alike... and carries with it moral responsibility. To understand the gun is to better understand history."

“What is morality in any given time or place? It is what the majority then and there happen to like, and immorality is what they dislike.” - Alfred North Whitehead
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-09-2013, 12:34 AM
The Wierd It's Avatar
The Wierd It The Wierd It is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Somewhere in England.
Posts: 325
Default

FN's not going to win the IC competition. The DoD's taking too many Colt backhanders for that. *hides the tinfoil hat*
__________________
You seem nervous... Is it the accent? Do you want to know how I got it?

There's only one explanation for everything that's happened to me so far: This universe is trolling me.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-09-2013, 01:05 AM
SPEMack618 SPEMack618 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Georgia
Posts: 742
Default

I doubt the AC produces anything simply because the cost invovled in procuring a new weapon, regardless of being 5.56mm and taking STANAG mags, will far outweigh any supposed benefits of a new weapon system.

Sequestration and all that, you see.
__________________
I like to think, that before that Navy SEAL double tapped bin Laden in the head, he kicked him, so that we could truly say we put a boot in his ass.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-09-2013, 01:31 AM
The Wierd It's Avatar
The Wierd It The Wierd It is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Somewhere in England.
Posts: 325
Default

Although from the looks of things FN's got it made anyway since the DoD's paying them $84 million for new M4A1s.
__________________
You seem nervous... Is it the accent? Do you want to know how I got it?

There's only one explanation for everything that's happened to me so far: This universe is trolling me.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-09-2013, 01:57 AM
SPEMack618 SPEMack618 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Georgia
Posts: 742
Default

Yeah, Colt lost the M-16 contract awhile back and then lost the sole contract for the M-4A1.

In a way though, this makes me happy, since ever since then Colt has been concentrating a lot more on the civillian market.
__________________
I like to think, that before that Navy SEAL double tapped bin Laden in the head, he kicked him, so that we could truly say we put a boot in his ass.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-09-2013, 02:30 AM
Excalibur's Avatar
Excalibur Excalibur is offline
IMFDB Admin
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 3,814
Send a message via AIM to Excalibur Send a message via MSN to Excalibur Send a message via Yahoo to Excalibur
Default

Odds are, the Army is not going to adopt a new rifle because of the costs it would take it swap out the entire Army's inventory of M4s
__________________

"There's a fine line between not listening and not caring...I like to think I walk that line everyday of my life."

Blessed be the LORD, my rock, Who trains my hands for war, And my fingers for battle
Psalm 144:1

“It is always wrong to use force, unless it is more wrong not to.”
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-09-2013, 02:32 AM
SPEMack618 SPEMack618 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Georgia
Posts: 742
Default

And while they're are certainly improvements that could be made to the M-4, they're aren't big enough to justify an entirely new weapon system.
__________________
I like to think, that before that Navy SEAL double tapped bin Laden in the head, he kicked him, so that we could truly say we put a boot in his ass.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-09-2013, 03:58 AM
Spartan198's Avatar
Spartan198 Spartan198 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The failed state of California
Posts: 2,163
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wierd It View Post
FN's not going to win the IC competition.
Maybe so, maybe not, we'll have to wait and see. That's not the point, though. If the AC were to win the IC competition, I can't help but wonder what the ramifications on SOCOM acquisition of 5.56mm carbines will be. If it were to come to pass, SOCOM's "standard" 5.56mm carbine would effectively be looked at as a second-tier weapon. Hell, some people already consider the M4 a second tier weapon and many don't even consider it a combat-worthy weapon at all.
__________________
"The gun has played a critical role in history. An invention which has been praised and denounced... served hero and villain alike... and carries with it moral responsibility. To understand the gun is to better understand history."

“What is morality in any given time or place? It is what the majority then and there happen to like, and immorality is what they dislike.” - Alfred North Whitehead

Last edited by Spartan198; 04-09-2013 at 04:05 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-09-2013, 04:24 AM
SPEMack618 SPEMack618 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Georgia
Posts: 742
Default

It always make me chuckle when internet commandoes rail about how ineffective the M-4A1 is.

If it was really that bad, would SOCOM and other assorted world wild Spec Ops guys really use it?

I mean these are the people that actually get the money to get the very best thing, they aren't going to carry anything that isn't the best.

Oh, and I'm not implying that you are an internet commando, Spartan.
__________________
I like to think, that before that Navy SEAL double tapped bin Laden in the head, he kicked him, so that we could truly say we put a boot in his ass.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-09-2013, 10:24 AM
Spartan198's Avatar
Spartan198 Spartan198 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The failed state of California
Posts: 2,163
Default

^Don't worry, I know weren't. I am just a civvie, though, so I'm going to leave such analysis up to the guys who use the weapon. But the fact that armed forces all over the world are running, and in some cases have been for years on end, DI guns like the M4 without mass failure, should speak for itself IMO. I don't need to have carried the weapon into combat to know that much.
__________________
"The gun has played a critical role in history. An invention which has been praised and denounced... served hero and villain alike... and carries with it moral responsibility. To understand the gun is to better understand history."

“What is morality in any given time or place? It is what the majority then and there happen to like, and immorality is what they dislike.” - Alfred North Whitehead
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.