AK-47 vs M16

True. Most guns do look a little smaller in my hands. I have an AMT Hardballer Longslide, which my friends just call the "Joe sized .45".

[jdun]

Originally Posted by k9870

The military is currently working on an intermediate round, as the 5.56 does not have all that much enrgy to play with. At extreme range it loses power, where 7.62mm DMRs come in. Of course I have heard AR fans say an m4 with an acog is a better DMR....yes, really...And even thin obstacles like sheet metal and wood doors have been known to slow the 556 down enough that it isn't delivering enough energy to reliably take down a bad guy. I cant wait to see an intermidiate round, the 6.5 grendel would be good if it didn't jam up so easy.

The M-855 has more then enough penetrating power to blow the brain out of a Soviet solider wearing a hamlet at 600 yards.

You have tunnel version about stopping power like most arm chair commandos. Here the deal, it's not all about stopping power. If it is then life would be a lot easier. I would be shooting 30mm ammo or greater. I can't because there are trade off. It's not a black and white issue.

You know why US SF don't use .30 caliber rifles? Control because in real life there is no 180 degree firing line. Everything is fluid. The firing line reinforced bad habits.

If you go to any combat school they will teach you how to control your weapon so you don't blow your partners brain up.

You train like you fight. Yes they are using live ammo and explosive.

http://rpginn.com/index.php?option=c...=684&Itemid=39

[k9870]

You have tunnel version about stopping power like most arm chair commandos.

Sorry i prefer more punch. Sinle, precise shots. I dont rely on rate of fire. And in reality you cant hit everything in the head. .22 holes in the chest dont really drop something hyped up on drugs all that effectively, especially in FMJ form. Good ammo like 75gr TAP may give me more faith...as far a FMJ military ammo and war, Id take a .308. In civilian life too.

All m16 arguments go into the m1a vs ar-15 debate.

"5.56 is more controllable in full auto"

Yeah, cause we can all afford or legally buy class 3s.....

"it's not about caliber, itws about shot placement"
In that case, why not 10/22s? ....Oh, so caliber does matter? Taking back your original stateent?

"With 556 you can carry more ammo"

Well, if i drop things with a single shot instead of a 3 round burst, im using less. Dont need as much.

".308s are heavy."

Yep, an extra pound of rifle....big deal.

[Gunmaster45]

Kinetic energy is what is important, commonly called "knock down" power, even though common physics prove bullets don't knock people down. If a bullet stops in the body, it is far more likely to kill you due to the kinetic energy, but if a bullet passes through you, it doesn't hold this same energy. For instance, many people compare 9mm to .45 ACP. A 9mm is a fast moving high velocity round that is quite small. When it hits a person, it doesn't always stop in the body. This is why most people use 9mm hollowpoints. It ensures they stay in the body. The .45 on the other hand is a big, slow moving bullet. When it hits, its kinetic energy is maintained and more damage is done.

I've heard that while .223s are really fast (meaning it would pass through the body) and small, they tend to tumble and shatter in the human body, which does quite a bit of damage. Since it is about 10 rounds more in each magazine for a .223 over a .308, I think I'd stick to .223. But as a Navy Seal once said, "When you give them two in the head and one in the chest, they won't know the difference."

[k9870]

Well, the 223 efffect, shattering is usually close. I remeber hearing m4s only shattered within 120 yards. The m16 fares a little better. An m14 will kill a uy behind a wall though.

[Excalibur]

I've held an M14 and it is heavy as hell compared to an full length M16. It's about endurance on how long you can hold your rifle, aim it while holding it's weight and getting that shot. If the weapon is too heavy, it doesnt matter if it has accurate and heavy punching ammo if you can't pick it up or hold it against your shoulder for too long

[k9870]

Tell that to WW2 vets. Or vietnam vets. My friends dad was hitting 600 yard silouettes with simple ball ammo and iron sights.

[Gunmaster45]

I've known Vietnam vets who are complete BS artists (not to say the guy you know is), for instance, one guy I know was a Marine sniper and every story he told about his service was lifted straight from the biography "Marine Sniper: 93 Confirmed Kills" about Carlos Hatchcock. I can't image how he figured none of us would realize this.

The expression "Don't shoot until you see the whites of their eyes" doesn't apply anymore, I guess, when your popping guys a 600 yards with iron sights.

[k9870]

600 yard iron siht shots are not quite as realistic in combat, as range targets are set and you ahve alkl the time in the world. My friends dad was a range instructor/boarding team member in the navy and was top m14 marksman in his section. His brother was army in vietnam, carried an m14, and said he kept mags after every fight since they were issuing m16s (SP1s) that he refused to carry. He had to feed it from m60 belts. His stories arent BS, he only tells a few, usually about when a friend saved his life or such. As you can understand, he really doesnt like talking about vietnam.

[Gunmaster45]

Yeah I understand. I just felt like informing the forum members about the BS artists.