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  #11  
Old 09-25-2013, 05:41 PM
SPEMack618 SPEMack618 is offline
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Yeah, it is always tap, rack, bang. ALWAYS.

I've never used the foward assist, and frankly, think it is both stupid and dangerous.

But I have certainly tapped, racked, and went bang a few times. It just works.
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  #12  
Old 09-25-2013, 07:06 PM
Yournamehere Yournamehere is offline
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Whether or not to do immediate or remedial action seems to be preferential though. It's the difference between spending 3 seconds to perform an action to solve one or two problems, or a few more seconds to perform an action that will solve nearly all problems one could conceivably have. More importantly though, at the end of the day, one has to worry about fixing their gun, and if they choose to go one way or the other, the only thing that makes that a bad decision are the semantics of the situation, and the jam itself (which is unknown).

Having had a majority of jams with the guns I've fired that either required remedial action, or a simple lovetap on the back of the slide, I've come to A: not rely on tap rack bang, and B, check my gun to see what the problem is before acting. I assess what the problem is and tackle it. I don't robotically train myself to do one or two things every time my gun stops assuming it may fix the issue, I train myself to analyze the problem and act accordingly so I KNOW the problem will be fixed. I personally think, even if a split second slower, it's better to act on knowledge than acting on a hope and a training scar.

To stay relevant, if the guy in commando's picture were to go tap rack bang, he may fix the problem, sure. He may force a double feed and have to go remedial too. If he takes half a second to check that he's got a round half chambered, he can tap the slide and be back in business, granted the round is live.

I'm surprised you don't consider this logic, Excalibur, as it's right out of the Magpul DVDs and it makes more sense than robotics.
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  #13  
Old 09-25-2013, 07:07 PM
commando552 commando552 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
No that is the old way of doing it. Marines don't even use the forward assist during a jam today. It's either tap, rack, bang if you are in a pinch or look at the chamber to see if its a double feed or stovepipe, solve it and get back into the fight as fast as you can. With SPORTS, you don't know what is wrong with your rifle but you are already trying to solve an unknown problem. And SPORTS isn't immediate action. It's remedial action.
I thought SPORTS was the immediate action, whist remedial action involves putting the safety on and removing the magazine doesn't it? I was taught the British way which is a bit different, the "immediate action" is just to safe, cock, hook (lock the bolt back) and look. From their you perform the relevant "stoppage drill" depending on the situation.

The drills may have modernised since I was taught though (also I was Navy not Marines or Infantry so our small arms training may have been different and not as comprehensive). We tended to shuffle them around a bit (tap magazine first) and ommit parts depending on the situation. Due to the fact you have to reach over the SA80 to cock it you pretty much look in the chamber anyway whatever you do, so there isn't really a simple "tap, rack, bang" unless you deliberately avert your eyes.
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  #14  
Old 09-25-2013, 07:20 PM
commando552 commando552 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPEMack618 View Post
Yeah, it is always tap, rack, bang. ALWAYS.

I've never used the foward assist, and frankly, think it is both stupid and dangerous.

But I have certainly tapped, racked, and went bang a few times. It just works.
In the British forces it is standard to do a forward assist, even on a normal load. It is arguably unneccesary as it was only really needed with the A1 guns and the bolt closing problems mere largely solved with the A2, but I don't think I would ever call it dangerous. In order for the FA to do something dangerous on an M16 I think you would abolutely have to batter the thing, to the point where you would probably break the plunger.

I do think having the forward assist is a necessity on the AR-15 platform though, as if you were stuck in a fight with a dirty chamber that caused the bolt to not reliably close you would be buggered without it.
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  #15  
Old 09-26-2013, 01:16 AM
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Excalibur Excalibur is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yournamehere View Post
I'm surprised you don't consider this logic, Excalibur, as it's right out of the Magpul DVDs and it makes more sense than robotics.
I wasn't advertising to train until it's robot motions. The part where you observe to see why your gun stopped working is the important part.
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