Dude, this is simply awesome...

[BurtReynoldsMoustache]

Originally Posted by S&Wshooter

I agree with burt about how the prisons are overcrowded. We need to use the death sentence more often and for more offenses

Yes, just like the glorious People's Republic of China. What a paragon of justice and human rights they are.

[BurtReynoldsMoustache]

Originally Posted by k9870

Also, was wondering, whats your image of how a police force should be? No SWAT? No power to enforce drug laws?

SWAT teams were originally created to deal with hostage situations, so no I wouldn't get rid of them. And there shouldn't be any drug laws to enforce anyway. If police departments operated with the kinds of budgets they have now because of the drug war, but did so without any drug laws to enforce, they could get so much more done. Imagine if they devoted those resources to property crimes or rapes, which are both crimes with very low conviction rates.

[k9870]

Drug laws go beyond being ble to smoke weed (i know im just generalizing but everyone i know who wants to get rid o drug laws is because they want to toke up whenever they want.) There is meth, manufactured in apartments where the process hurts everyone around it, heroine which when laced with ketamine is more addictive and kills easily, tons of overdoses on the stuff where i live, crack, all kinds of shit that should never be legal. I can see the legalizing and regulation of marijuana or shrooms or something light but there are things that should nevber be allowed, as to capital punishment all 50 states should have it on the books for murder, the murder rate is lower in states with the death penalty.

[S&Wshooter]

Originally Posted by BurtReynoldsMoustache

Yes, just like the glorious People's Republic of China. What a paragon of justice and human rights they are.

It's a pretty good idea. Acts of terror, murder in which the person is absolutely guilty, multiple rape, and more than two accounts of drug trafficking should be executable offenses. And no waiting 25 years to carry it out, either. You get 10 years and after that you can appeal for a stay of execution for 5 more years ( just in case it is somehow discovered that the person is completely innocent)

[AdAstra2009]

Originally Posted by BurtReynoldsMoustache

And when you say "so what" to things like militarization of police and building more prisons, you are completely ignoring the cost of it all.

Money shouldn't be an obstacle to justice


The increased need for prisons has lead to a massive private prison industry that creates a conflict of interest in which it is profitable for the few people in charge to have as many people incarcerated as possible and at tremendous cost to the taxpayer.

Now you just sound like a crazy conspiracy theorist


And no it's not my opinion that the drug war is wasteful, that is undeniably established fact. Why? Because it accomplishes absolutely nothing.

Thats the most thick headed logic I've heard from you so far "because I think I'm correct it's automatic FACT"


And you're right, legalizing drugs will not make the drug problem go away. Nothing is going to make it go away. Drugs always have and always will be a part of the human experience and nothing can change that. Legislation and imprisonment is not how problems are dealt with. You mentioned the Netherlands? Here's an even more relevant example, Portugal. Portugal legalized all drugs for personal use, and what happened? Enrollment in rehabilitation programs skyrocketed, overdoses plummeted. Holy shit how did that happen?

3 things, one how is that relevant to the correlation between crime and legalization which is the only reason I used the Netherlands example ,two Portugal and the USA have completely different cultures and the USA's population is 30 times larger -you can't compare the two, and three Drugs are still effectively illegal in Portugal as people who are caught with drugs are sent to boards to be evaluated for treatment or fines and Drug dealers/traffickers are still dealt with harshly by the law and imprisoned.

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[k9870]

Its true that if you legalize drugs there will be less crime, but legalizing wreckless driving makes less crime too, since the people doing arent arrested. That doesnt mean people arent getting hurt. Seen peoples lives destroyed by drugs before, I say ban all the hard drugs.

[BurtReynoldsMoustache]

Originally Posted by k9870

Drug laws go beyond being ble to smoke weed (i know im just generalizing but everyone i know who wants to get rid o drug laws is because they want to toke up whenever they want.) There is meth, manufactured in apartments where the process hurts everyone around it, heroine which when laced with ketamine is more addictive and kills easily, tons of overdoses on the stuff where i live, crack, all kinds of shit that should never be legal. I can see the legalizing and regulation of marijuana or shrooms or something light but there are things that should nevber be allowed, as to capital punishment all 50 states should have it on the books for murder, the murder rate is lower in states with the death penalty.

If drugs were legal, much of the risk associated with them would be eliminated. It wouldn't be necessary to create hazardous clandestine laboratories to manufacture drugs like methamphetamine because it would be freely available from private companies which would be subject to the same laws and regulations that govern any other sort of manufacturing. Purity would also be an irrelevant concern. You don't worry about your aspirin or viagra being laced with PCP or formaldehyde, why would you worry the same about legally produced heroin?

People have this idea that legalizing drugs equates to legitimizing criminal organizations, as if legitimate companies wouldn't even be allowed to engage in the sale and manufacture of drugs and gangs would be allowed to run rampant through the streets. Before drugs were illegal they were made and sold by pharmaceutical companies, the same companies that still exist today such as Merck and Pfizer. And if drugs are ever legal again, those companies will jump right back on the bandwagon. Even all the tobacco companies registered trademarks for their own brands of marijuana cigarettes decades ago and are just sitting on them, waiting for the day to come.

As for people wrecking their own lives, that's an inevitable consequence of living in a free society where we are all responsible for our own lives. Not all of us will make it, that is a universal truth that will never change.

[AdAstra2009]

Originally Posted by BurtReynoldsMoustache

If drugs were legal, much of the risk associated with them would be eliminated.


Now you are contradicting yourself by both supporting the elimination of personal risk and the whole People should be able to hurt themselves if they want to perspective

why would you worry the same about legally produced heroin?

Now you are just pushing the border of insanity, heroin are you crazy??


As for people wrecking their own lives, that's an inevitable consequence of living in a free society where we are all responsible for our own lives.

I strongly believe that the Government should protect it's citizens, even when they don't want our protection. Same principle as the police intervening in suicide attempts .

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[BurtReynoldsMoustache]

Originally Posted by AdAstra2009

Money shouldn't be an obstacle to justice

This is the same argument used to rationalize such socialist nonsense as section 8 housing, universal healthcare, and federal student loans. The idea that everyone should have all the money they need to do whatever they want is what is destroying this country.

Originally Posted by AdAstra2009

Now you just sound like a crazy conspiracy theorist

In case you thought it's not a real thing...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GEO_Group

Just google "private prison" and have fun spending an entire day being horrified. Even that fascist Joe Arpaio thinks they're a problem.

Originally Posted by AdAstra2009

Thats the most thick headed logic I've heard from you so far "because I think I'm correct it's automatic FACT"

Even DEA agents admit that the drug war doesn't actually accomplish anything.

Originally Posted by AdAstra2009

3 things, one how is that relevant to the correlation between crime and legalization which is the only reason I used the Netherlands example ,two Portugal and the USA have completely different cultures and the USA's population is 30 times larger -you can't compare the two, and three Drugs are still effectively illegal in Portugal as people who are caught with drugs are sent to boards to be evaluated for treatment or fines and Drug dealers/traffickers are still dealt with harshly by the law and imprisoned.

I've heard that argument before in other debates about gun control, gay marriage, and welfare reform; "We can't do X here even though it works in country Y because our cultures are so different." It's a weak bullshit argument designed to prey on people's sense of national identity without actually making a real point.

[AdAstra2009]

Originally Posted by BurtReynoldsMoustache

This is the same argument used to rationalize such socialist nonsense as section 8 housing, universal healthcare, and federal student loans. The idea that everyone should have all the money they need to do whatever they want is what is destroying this country.

I don't see anything wrong with any of those programs really, I have some PERSONAL political bias against some elements of Universal healthcare though


In case you thought it's not a real thing...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GEO_Group

Just google "private prison" and have fun spending an entire day being horrified. Even that fascist Joe Arpaio thinks they're a problem.


I still don't see a problem, just because something doesn't work or works incorrectly isn't license to throw everything out but the kitchen sink


Even DEA agents admit that the drug war doesn't actually accomplish anything.

I'm suppose to take a couple DEA Agent's opinions as the world of God???


I've heard that argument before in other debates about gun control, gay marriage, and welfare reform; "We can't do X here even though it works in country Y because our cultures are so different." It's a weak bullshit argument designed to prey on people's sense of national identity without actually making a real point.


Well it's because that argument is a valid argument, that's why you hear it so much. And how does it not make a real point????? The whole argument is a point!!!!!
I can just call any of your arguments a "weak bullshit argument" like you did and call it a day, but I don't because that would be stupid

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