imfdb.org  

Go Back   imfdb.org > The Forum > Just Guns

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 01-25-2017, 12:22 AM
AdAstra2009's Avatar
AdAstra2009 AdAstra2009 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,053
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcordell View Post
I agree so the Army should go with the S&W Model 10 M&P revolver - .38 Special.
You could do that and probably not notice any difference whatsoever in the capabilities of our military!
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-25-2017, 02:42 PM
Excalibur's Avatar
Excalibur Excalibur is offline
IMFDB Admin
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 3,669
Send a message via AIM to Excalibur Send a message via MSN to Excalibur Send a message via Yahoo to Excalibur
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcordell View Post
I agree so the Army should go with the S&W Model 10 M&P revolver - .38 Special.


The US Army did use a .38 at one point, but then they fought in the Spanish American war and realized the .38 suck ass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcordell View Post
It's the Army. The Army is a big believer that if you give a soldier an anvil and then leave him/her alone on a deserted island for a few hours when you come back the anvil will be broken. I served with guys who were basically a big bag or rocks. I get it. Might not agree with it, but I get it.

I agree with that for the most part, which is why training is important. That's why the Marines are some of our best shooters. If you want to truly test a piece of equipment, give it to the Marines. They'll find a way to break it...on purpose.
__________________

"There's a fine line between not listening and not caring...I like to think I walk that line everyday of my life."

Blessed be the LORD, my rock, Who trains my hands for war, And my fingers for battle
Psalm 144:1

“It is always wrong to use force, unless it is more wrong not to.”

Last edited by Excalibur; 01-25-2017 at 02:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-25-2017, 07:53 PM
S&Wshooter's Avatar
S&Wshooter S&Wshooter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,808
Default

The .38 the military adopted as it's main pistol caliber was the .38 Long Colt, which was black powder and due to the design of the bullet tended to exit the barrel undersized


.38 Special has a pretty long history in the US military, with various revolvers chambered in it being substitute standards (off the top of my head, the US military has issued S&W .38 Hand Ejector, the S&W Victory, the S&W Model 10, Colt Commando snubs, Colt AND S&W patten M13 Aircrewmans, Ruger Service Sixes, S&W Model 12's, and S&W Model 15's). Also a loooooot of people that privately purchased sidearms (when one could get such a thing allowed) bought .38's, mostly Colt and S&W


https://www.americanrifleman.org/art...ary-revolvers/

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-rev...w-vietnam.html
__________________
Get off of my property


http://www.introvertisland.com
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-27-2017, 02:07 PM
Spartan198's Avatar
Spartan198 Spartan198 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,978
Default

Looks like they're sticking with 9mm, but looking at new types of ammunition.

http://kitup.military.com/2017/01/mo...un-system.html
__________________
"The gun has played a critical role in history. An invention which has been praised and denounced... served hero and villain alike... and carries with it moral responsibility. To understand the gun is to better understand history."

“What is morality in any given time or place? It is what the majority then and there happen to like, and immorality is what they dislike.” - Alfred North Whitehead
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-27-2017, 02:53 PM
Excalibur's Avatar
Excalibur Excalibur is offline
IMFDB Admin
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 3,669
Send a message via AIM to Excalibur Send a message via MSN to Excalibur Send a message via Yahoo to Excalibur
Default

They should try hollow points. I don't believe the US actually has signed any treaties that prevents them from not using them. I think we don't use them because of our allies, the same reason why we adopted the 9mm way back
__________________

"There's a fine line between not listening and not caring...I like to think I walk that line everyday of my life."

Blessed be the LORD, my rock, Who trains my hands for war, And my fingers for battle
Psalm 144:1

“It is always wrong to use force, unless it is more wrong not to.”
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-28-2017, 12:27 AM
S&Wshooter's Avatar
S&Wshooter S&Wshooter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,808
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
They should try hollow points. I don't believe the US actually has signed any treaties that prevents them from not using them. I think we don't use them because of our allies, the same reason why we adopted the 9mm way back
Even if we had signed treaties saying we couldn't use them, those treaties only ever apply to other signatories. Also terrorists are un-uniformed unlawful combatants so basically whatever needs to be done can be done no issue
__________________
Get off of my property


http://www.introvertisland.com
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-28-2017, 03:50 AM
Mazryonh Mazryonh is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 234
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcordell View Post
I served with guys who were basically a big bag of rocks.
I thought the US armed forces administered IQ tests to filter out new recruits. "Private SNAFUs" aren't highly desired commodities now, are they?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan198 View Post
Looks like they're sticking with 9mm, but looking at new types of ammunition.

http://kitup.military.com/2017/01/mo...un-system.html
It seems the original MHS requirement that a new caliber, more effective than 9mm Para, be adopted for the MHS handgun was dropped. But if the P320 compact does get a 10mm version (based off its .45 ACP frame size) than it'll probably be the first commercially-produced "compact-size" semi-auto handgun in 10mm.

Apparently SIG-Sauer also discontinued its previous modular handgun, the Sig P250, now that the P320 was accepted.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-29-2017, 10:23 AM
Jcordell Jcordell is offline
Formerly "Checkman"
IMFDB Admin
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Idaho
Posts: 870
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazryonh View Post
I thought the US armed forces administered IQ tests to filter out new recruits. "Private SNAFUs" aren't highly desired commodities now, are they?
They administer the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery (ASVAB) and the Armed Forces Qualification Test (AFQT). They do filter out the worst, but the Army is large and Pvt. SNAFUs get through. They get into the more selective branches as well like the Air Force and the Coast Guard.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-29-2017, 09:21 PM
StanTheMan StanTheMan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: AR, USA
Posts: 84
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcordell View Post
In all seriousness I think it will be fine. Easy to maintain, simple in it's function, easy to teach personnel who have no prior experience with real firearms and ,one assumes, sturdy and reliable. Polymer pistols are the new reality and they're here to stay. For the Army to choose a polymer pistol says something. The Army resisted the trend for a long time. Hell I carry a Glock 19 on duty and I have no issues with it. When I retire my department will gift it to me and I'm a dyed in the wool blue steel and wood furniture kind of guy. Your average soldier (not Delta, SF or Rangers) doesn't really give a shit about what he/she carries as long as it goes bang when they need it and it isn't horrifically heavy.
Pretty much with this. Though I do think SPEMack has something of a point, the whole 'KISS' deal. I too don't think the modular bits will really make much difference. Ease of replacement on the frame I think will be a plus, however.

That said I find it funny the SIG deal has kinda come full-circle. I really think they should have gone with the 226 before. Guess they'll get their turn now though.

All-told, I'm cool with this.
__________________
"..If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you - It would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun."
- The Dalai Lama
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-30-2017, 03:19 PM
Excalibur's Avatar
Excalibur Excalibur is offline
IMFDB Admin
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 3,669
Send a message via AIM to Excalibur Send a message via MSN to Excalibur Send a message via Yahoo to Excalibur
Default

Realistically, there's nothing actually wrong with the Beretta design as a whole. It just had problems being maintained in the field and at the time, felt kinda heavy compared to other guns of the era. The only real problem currently one might have is if you are dead set with today's training that has you racking the slide during a reload and people would accidentally make the weapon safe because of the frame mounted safety/decocker.

I personally don't see a point in the DA/SA type of trigger for an automatic handgun. It makes sense functionally for a revolver because it relates to the hammer and cylinder but not for a handgun with a slide and even if it is hammer fired. I think it was one of those safety options out of fear of negligence, like how Browning originally intended the 1911 to have no safety of any kind, neither manual safety or grip safety until the Army told him.
__________________

"There's a fine line between not listening and not caring...I like to think I walk that line everyday of my life."

Blessed be the LORD, my rock, Who trains my hands for war, And my fingers for battle
Psalm 144:1

“It is always wrong to use force, unless it is more wrong not to.”
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.