Theoretical: The SOCOM M4A1 post-adoption of the FN AC

[commando552]

I think the origin of this is the saw backed bayonets carried by German pioneers in WW1. Apparently there were stories of them causing such ghastly wounds that if a soldier was captured with one he was tortured and executed, so the German Army stopped issuing them. The Hague convention only covers weapons which are "calculated to cause unnecessary suffering", and this is generally not the intent with a serrated are sawback knife. The serrations are generally there for utility purposes due to bayonets now being more of a tool and are not designed to cause suffering, so they are allowed.

[funkychinaman]

So hollow points were specifically banned by Declaration II of the Hague Convention of 1899:

The Contracting Parties agree to abstain from the use of bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core, or is pierced with incisions.

The present Declaration is only binding for the Contracting Powers in the case of a war between two or more of them.

It shall cease to be binding from the time when, in a war between the Contracting Parties, one of the belligerents is joined by a non-Contracting Power.

Interestingly, "the use of projectiles the object of which is the diffusion of asphyxiating or deleterious gases" was also banned at the same convention. (Declaration III.) This obviously didn't stick, but it could be the reason why the Germans initially only released chemical weapons from gas cylinders. It wasn't until later that both sides started filling projectiles with the stuff.

[funkychinaman]

Originally Posted by commando552

I think the origin of this is the saw backed bayonets carried by German pioneers in WW1. Apparently there were stories of them causing such ghastly wounds that if a soldier was captured with one he was tortured and executed, so the German Army stopped issuing them. The Hague convention only covers weapons which are "calculated to cause unnecessary suffering", and this is generally not the intent with a serrated are sawback knife. The serrations are generally there for utility purposes due to bayonets now being more of a tool and are not designed to cause suffering, so they are allowed.

Section II, Chapter I, Article 23 of "Laws and Customs of War on Land" prohibits using "arms, projectiles, or material of a nature to cause superfluous injury"

[SPEMack618]

I genuinely understand the purpose of the Hague and Geneve conventions, in addition to the theory behind ball ammo. And I think it applies neatly to a total war scenario against a similar nation. (Think Allies against Germany)

However, when the enemy comes from an entirely different culture, there is no strategic industry for Bomber Commander and the 8th Air Force to plaster into oblivion, and oh yeah, the bad guys leave thier wounded behind for us to deal with, the ban on hollow points seems a bit...antiquated.

[Excalibur]

Originally Posted by SPEMack618

However, when the enemy comes from an entirely different culture, there is no strategic industry for Bomber Commander and the 8th Air Force to plaster into oblivion, and oh yeah, the bad guys leave thier wounded behind for us to deal with, the ban on hollow points seems a bit...antiquated.

Especially with the kinds of ammo the military is allowed to use. We can't use hollow point but HE grenades fired from the Mk 19s? the kinds of missiles and bombs we throw at our enemies today?

[Chitoryu12]

Originally Posted by Excalibur

Especially with the kinds of ammo the military is allowed to use. We can't use hollow point but HE grenades fired from the Mk 19s? the kinds of missiles and bombs we throw at our enemies today?

Incendiary weapons, especially. You'd think they'd have put a ban on slowly roasting people to death, but nope!

[SPEMack618]

I always thought it was funny that we were mandated to have one less lethal option per truck/section.

Generally that was a Mossberg M590A1 or having appropiate crowd control grenades for the -203A1.

That being said, the Mossberg was always loaded with 00 Buck, and was favored by my platoon sergeant when we were doing house searched.

Breeching round, bye-bye door, rack in a load of buck, and bam he's clearing rooms like he was taking down a meth lab back home.