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  #21  
Old 11-26-2009, 10:15 PM
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Spartan198 Spartan198 is offline
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Originally Posted by MT2008 View Post
But I mean, don't you think this is something that needed to be considered before we went into Iraq in the first place?
I'm not sure I understand.

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No, we didn't go to Iraq for the oil. Yes, it was related to 9/11, but not because Saddam had anything to do with al-Qaeda. We basically went it to divide the Islamic world as a whole, and to put countries like Saudi Arabia in a position where they either had to be with us 100%, or not at all. And being pussies, they were drawn (involuntarily) closer to us, which meant that they could no longer get away with sponsoring jihadists.

It wasn't necessarily a bad idea in principle, but it was poorly planned and executed.
I never considered it that way, but it makes sense. I do believe I have been enlightened.

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Originally Posted by Ace Oliveira View Post
Seriously? Close the borders? What's so bad about illegal immigrants? While they don't pay taxes they give the United States almost free labour. Immigrants aren't coming over the borders to destroy the country. They don't pay taxes (We are talking about illegal ones), yes, but if that's the only complaint about immigrants, then it doesn't really make any sense because those could be easily fixed. And I still don't know what's so bad about "too many immigrants". Is it because a lot of them don't speak english? Because that's the only thing that I hate about illegal immigrants and normal immigrants too.
They take welfare and food stamps that only US citizens should be eligible for, they get free health care at taxpayer expense, and yeah, biggest part of them can't speak, read, or write English. I've heard it's getting to the point where the they're even considering making Spanish an official second language! It's getting to where I'm a minority in my own country and I'm fed up with it.

I have no problem with them if they come legally, but we've been way too accommodating to illegals. And I don't really find employers getting cheap labor as any kind of advantage for anyone but the employers themselves in that it enables them to avoid paying decent wages.
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Last edited by Spartan198; 11-27-2009 at 05:12 AM.
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  #22  
Old 11-27-2009, 08:27 PM
Ace Oliveira Ace Oliveira is offline
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They take welfare and food stamps that only US citizens should be eligible for, they get free health care at taxpayer expense, and yeah, biggest part of them can't speak, read, or write English. I've heard it's getting to the point where the they're even considering making Spanish an official second language! It's getting to where I'm a minority in my own country and I'm fed up with it.

I have no problem with them if they come legally, but we've been way too accommodating to illegals. And I don't really find employers getting cheap labor as any kind of advantage for anyone but the employers themselves in that it enables them to avoid paying decent wages.
What? You feel like you are a minority in your own country? Really? And why do only US citizens should be eliglible for welfare and food stamps? Is it because they pay taxes? Because we could rehabilitate illegal immigrants instead of just throwing them in jail or deporting them.

Seriously Spartan, how the hell can you feel like a minority? I assume you're white by the way. How can you feel like a minority when 82 percent of Americans speak English and only 12 percent speak spanish. Of course, 12 percent would be over 30 million Americans but comparing that to the 82 percent and you have a huge difference. How can you feel like a minority when 79 percent of Americans are white and white decendents and only 15 of them are hispanic and hispanic decendent? Your claim that you feel like a minority is ridiculous. It's laughable at best.

And don't try to say that I support making spanish a official language in any state because spanish is a extremely hard language to learn if you're not born in it. Teaching spanish is federal law in all schools in Brazil for some stupid reason. I can pronounce words in spanish really well but I can't understand what I'm saying or hearing. Spanish is a pain in the ass to learn and I think that the United States has no official language on the federal level is silly. Which is why I think the government should rehabilitate the immigrants not just let them run around doing anythin they want all willy nilly. I know you are in California and there's a huge spanish speaking population in there but to feel like a minority is silly.
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  #23  
Old 11-27-2009, 08:53 PM
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AdAstra2009 AdAstra2009 is offline
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Originally Posted by Ace Oliveira View Post
And why do only US citizens should be eliglible for welfare and food stamps? Is it because they pay taxes?
yes....and also that they are here legally and illegals are not.

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Originally Posted by Ace Oliveira View Post
Because we could rehabilitate illegal immigrants instead of just throwing them in jail or deporting them.
nope, just deporting them. It's expensive to keep people in jail you know.

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Originally Posted by Ace Oliveira View Post
Seriously Spartan, how the hell can you feel like a minority? I assume you're white by the way. How can you feel like a minority when 82 percent of Americans speak English and only 12 percent speak spanish. Of course, 12 percent would be over 30 million Americans but comparing that to the 82 percent and you have a huge difference. How can you feel like a minority when 79 percent of Americans are white and white decendents and only 15 of them are hispanic and hispanic decendent? Your claim that you feel like a minority is ridiculous. It's laughable at best.
He said feel like a minority, not that he is a minority
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  #24  
Old 11-27-2009, 11:11 PM
Jcordell Jcordell is offline
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Sorry to add gasoline to the fire but just one thing. Those folks who are descended from the original Portugese and Spanish settlers are also considered to be "white" or Caucasian. Now those folks who have the various Indians and/or Blacks in their genetic history aren't.

Lately there has been a tendency to consider those who speak Spanish to be "non-white". Well I've been to Spain (and Italy) and I've seen my share of fair skinned, blonde hair and blue eyed Spanish speaking (and Italian) natives.

"White" folks are not just Anglo-Saxon descent. Though I know that right now it's popular to think that.
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  #25  
Old 11-28-2009, 03:34 AM
Markost Markost is offline
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Originally Posted by Checkman View Post
Sorry to add gasoline to the fire but just one thing. Those folks who are descended from the original Portugese and Spanish settlers are also considered to be "white" or Caucasian. Now those folks who have the various Indians and/or Blacks in their genetic history aren't.

Lately there has been a tendency to consider those who speak Spanish to be "non-white". Well I've been to Spain (and Italy) and I've seen my share of fair skinned, blonde hair and blue eyed Spanish speaking (and Italian) natives.

"White" folks are not just Anglo-Saxon descent. Though I know that right now it's popular to think that.
That´s right, my grandfathers were italian, and my grandpa had blue eyes, not only the saxons are caucasians. That´s from my mother´s side, but my father has french-basque blood mixed with indian and spanish blood, so I consider myself as a result of cultural crossbreeding. This is very common here, because 85% of the population is descended from Italians...

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And don't try to say that I support making spanish a official language in any state because spanish is a extremely hard language to learn if you're not born in it. Teaching spanish is federal law in all schools in Brazil for some stupid reason. I can pronounce words in spanish really well but I can't understand what I'm saying or hearing. Spanish is a pain in the ass to learn and I think that the United States has no official language on the federal level is silly. Which is why I think the government should rehabilitate the immigrants not just let them run around doing anythin they want all willy nilly. I know you are in California and there's a huge spanish speaking population in there but to feel like a minority is silly.
mmm, say thanks to the Mercosur...
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  #26  
Old 11-28-2009, 04:03 PM
Ace Oliveira Ace Oliveira is offline
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Originally Posted by AdAstra2009 View Post
yes....and also that they are here legally and illegals are not.



nope, just deporting them. It's expensive to keep people in jail you know.



He said feel like a minority, not that he is a minority
Just because it's expensived doesn't mean it's bad, Astra.
It wouldn't cost much to rehabilitate them. Hell, it could even cost less. We would teach the immigrants english in the rehabilitation centers.

There's a lot of stuff we could do to immigrants, both legal and illegal, to make them speak english and start coming in legally. I'm not sure I could say what my "plan" is because I would probably go into sperg territory and all of you would make fun of me. So yeah.

Now for you Cordell.
I know that not only the Saxons are white. My name is Benito Oliveira. Both a combination of a Spanish name and a Portuguese name. I'm white as hell and I'm a direct descendent of the spanish. Hell, my dad named me Benito after my great grandfather who was a veteran of the Spanish Civil War. My mother is black and so is my brother. However, if I came and knocked at your door and you looked at me, I doubt you'd think I'm a immigrant. Especially because Brazilians don't really have accents. Except for Brazilian rednecks who live in the north east. They have really thick accents.
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  #27  
Old 11-28-2009, 05:59 PM
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AdAstra2009 AdAstra2009 is offline
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Originally Posted by Ace Oliveira View Post
It wouldn't cost much to rehabilitate them. Hell, it could even cost less. We would teach the immigrants english in the rehabilitation centers.
If potential illegal immigrants knew that the worst that would happen to them is a free english lesson; It would encourage illegal immigration.

The point is they are here ILLEGALLY. Because of that they should be given no benefits and sent back to their home country. It's unfair to people who are in the long process of emigrating legally to give benefits to all these people who essentially cut in line.

Last edited by AdAstra2009; 11-28-2009 at 06:02 PM.
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  #28  
Old 11-28-2009, 09:40 PM
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MT2008 MT2008 is offline
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A bigger problem with many of these Latino immigrants is the fact that so many of them (and I mean, a significant portion, though I can't remember exact percentage) hold revanchist views and think the Southwestern U.S. should be Mexican territory. If these people were interested in assimilating into America, the way previous generations of immigrants did, I might not feel quite so opposed, but many of them aren't. They don't want to be Americans; they're Mexican nationalists at heart.

I have the same problem with Muslim immigrants, too. Many of them see themselves as Muslims first, Americans second. Many of them are sympathetic to the global jihad and may even be involved in terrorism themselves. And they make zero effort to assimilate, instead insisting on special privileges (like we really need prayer rooms and women-only hours at college gyms...)

And I know liberals always reference the fact that America has been a melting pot nation, but the problem is that these new immigrants are skiping the "melting" part when they enter the pot. Instead, they come to our country, they hate our ideas and everything we stand for, and then they bitch and whine that they're being "discriminated" against. Sorry, why am I meant to support more of that? The thing that's funny is that despite how much of Europe looks down upon America for not being as "progressive" as they are, it's funny to me that it's been in Europe that we've seen a revival of far-right/fascist-type parties in the past few years. Why? Because the Europeans are learning the hard way why immigration and multiculturalism has its limits.
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  #29  
Old 11-28-2009, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Ace Oliveira View Post
I know that not only the Saxons are white. My name is Benito Oliveira. Both a combination of a Spanish name and a Portuguese name. I'm white as hell and I'm a direct descendent of the spanish. Hell, my dad named me Benito after my great grandfather who was a veteran of the Spanish Civil War. My mother is black and so is my brother. However, if I came and knocked at your door and you looked at me, I doubt you'd think I'm a immigrant. Especially because Brazilians don't really have accents. Except for Brazilian rednecks who live in the north east. They have really thick accents.
Tell me, how do you deal with the fact that your country has a racist President who claims that “white people with blue eyes” caused the 2008 financial crisis? And openly accommodates Iran's Islamofascist President? If you are white, don't you kinda worry about what he's done recently?
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  #30  
Old 11-29-2009, 12:53 AM
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Swordfish941 Swordfish941 is offline
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Hey Oliveria, I got a question for you. Did your grandfather fought on the Facist side or the rebels (I read "For Whom the Bell Tolls" by Ernest Heminghway and can't decide which side fought for the good cause).
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