Guns you want to see made Pt. 2

[Yournamehere]

Originally Posted by k9870

Its my preference, it doesnt need to be debated. But neither does 1911 vs glock but those threads go for ever....honestly i dont like manual safeties on DA guns.

I say the following with the most sincerity possible and I don't mean to offend.

The "it's my preference" "to each his own" deal only goes so far, and when you express your opinion to people and someone who has more experience than you in the subject and has come to a different conclusion, you better be ready to have a discussion.

To be honest I think that your opinion is based in theory more than anything, as in you haven't actually handled a slide mounted decocker/safety for an extended time. I don't know you or your experiences, but I say that because I know people who have and have not come to the conclusion you have, and frankly it sounds like some theoretical tactical community BS that one would say so that one could seem like they are in the know with regard to tactical-ness. What is your actual experience with slide mounted safeties?

You guys should know mine, I've owned two pistols with the feature, a Beretta and a 5906, and I've shot a few other Berettas too and have never had an accidental actuation nor have I felt it inconvenient when actually using it to safe or decock my pistol with my firing hand, or while slingshotting my gun's slide. Predator owns a gun with that feature, has owned others and also hasn't had that problem in his own practice. Have you had a problem in practice? Or is it just something you read or thought of as a means to (improperly) discount the design? The opinion that it is not a problem it our conclusion based on practice, what is yours? Do you have one? If you don't or it's not sufficient, then my opinion is greater than yours since one, I'm being objective, and two, because I have hands on experience rather than theory to go on and most people will agree that's worth more, or in short, your preference is "wrong" due to it's insufficient basis next to my more sufficient basis.

Seriously, what is your real experience? I'm not trying to be a jerk and say "hurr I have more experience than you shut up", I'm doing the exact opposite. I want to know what you actually know, do or have done so I can possibly appreciate your input, but you aren't giving me any evidence to support it. Do so, and if you don't have any and it's theoretical, your opinion is in fact wrong, or rather less sufficient, in that it's unfounded next to mine, Predator's and every other person who agrees with us based on their practical evidence rather than theoretical evidence.

[k9870]

Ive just shot guns with them at the range. Never had a problem with it. I know its unlikely but why take the risk? And a magazine disconnect may never be an issue either, could easily be though. Just features id rather not deal with, especially with many other guns i like better out there. Also, i find it awkward to use a safety up there, (not that i would unless a department/agency i work for requires it in future)) shoot mostly 1911s though so im used to that type of safety.

Things i hate in guns:

DAO.
Mag disconnects.
Slide mounted safety.

[Yournamehere]

Originally Posted by S&Wshooter

4506: At the most, $600

S&W1911: $900-$2000

Magazine for 4506: Pain in the ass to find, most available are used, S&W is the only game in town

Magazine for 1911: Everyone makes them, easy to find

Again, they aren't a pain in the ass to find if you look on the internet. Do a gunbroker search or go here:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=250602

If you've never been to Midway USA, they are a pretty well know gun parts supplier and they regularly have stuff like those mags. Hell, they're on sale!

Originally Posted by S&Wshooter

It isn't a mod to make the 4506 appeal to 1911 fans, it's a mod for people who want a handgun that will work no matter what but like the option of being able to go to any gunstore in America and buy a magazine for their handgun

Eh, my point still makes sense with that. You can just buy a good old 1911 and take 1911 mags rather than buying a 4506 (which isn't that common anymore to begin with) and converting it (especially when, again, it's not that hard to get ahold of 4506 mags). Yeah, S&W 1911s are more expensive, but there are other 1911 makers that charge less with a similar degree of quality, and even so some people don't really care about the price. S&W has also announced a change in their 1911s and that they will be priced more modestly than that, or at least that's what I read in Guns and Ammo.

It also won't happen because S&W ants you to buy their mags so they get money, rather than aftermarkets, and it makes less sense when you think about getting a 1911 that takes 1911 mags, as well as most if not all other common 1911 parts as opposed to a gun that just receives the magazine and has no other commonality, as well as a different battery of arms, the DA/SA, which has fallen out of vogue (because k9870 is afraid he might actuate the safety and the gun will fail for him oh noes).

It's a solution to a problem that does not exist since, again, 4056 mags are not that uncommon, and even more problematic in that the gun just wouldn't sell anyway, not when there are 1911s on the market that people want and no mass desire for the 4506. The market has ceiled its fate.

[Yournamehere]

Originally Posted by k9870

Ive just shot guns with them at the range. Never had a problem with it. I know its unlikely but why take the risk? And a magazine disconnect may never be an issue either, could easily be though. Just features id rather not deal with, especially with many other guns i like better out there. Also, i find it awkward to use a safety up there, (not that i would unless a department/agency i work for requires it in future)) shoot mostly 1911s though so im used to that type of safety.

Things i hate in guns:

DAO.
Mag disconnects.
Slide mounted safety.

The naturally dehorned and smooth nature of a Glock slide would make it harder to strip a failed round if I needed to, and if a round fails I have to rack the slide to cock the striker again, so why take the risk with that?

The SIG decocker doesn't actually click and actuate until it reaches the very bottom, and the click itself is pretty rough while the majority of the push is light, so it'd be very easy for someone to think they've decocked it in the heat of the moment when they actually haven't, so they could be wandering around with a gun in SA mode with no safety and that is dangerous. Why take that risk?

1911s are safe when they are cocked and locked, but that safety can pop off riding in a holster or the user could forget to actuate it, or worse yet, the sear could somehow fail and have the hammer come down and discharge the pistol. Why take that risk?

When we think of hypothetical situations, any stupid thing is possible, and even if it's based in some logical realm, it's still theory and doesn't hold a candle to what people actually of through, or the fact that anyone can learn to do anything and use any system proficiently so long as they aren't an idiot and put in the time to practice with it. Have all the opinions you want, but don't base them in theory, because if you believe them, you have to believe my examples as well and I know you don't, nobody does.

And don't say I'm doing this to be mean either, because I don't like mag disconnects or DAO either because of my own reasons, so we agree there, but I understand that someone else might for their reasons and they are right too, so long as their reasons are based of course in practice and not theory.

[S&Wshooter]

I can see why LEO's would want the mag disconnect. If you are in a struggle with somebody for your gun, if it has a mag disconnect you can simply drop the mag and let the bastard have the gun. While he is wondering why the gun won't go bang, you can taser him or bash him with a nightstick

I don't really mind the mag disconnect nor the heavy double action trigger. I make damn sure the mag is seated when I reload by giving it a hard extra tap. All the heavy trigger means to me is that if someone like a child were to somehow get ahold of my gun, they will be less likely to hurt somebody

[Yournamehere]

I don't like the disconnect because guns with it differ from about every gun I have ever used, and with my Browning, I can't lower the hammer unless I have a mag seated and I don't want to have to put a magazine in my gun to be able to lower the hammer or dry fire it, especially if I keep loaded mags around. I have some extra mags I keep empty, but it's annoying to have to take them out of their case and put them in when I want to dry fire or lower my hammer after clearing it, and it just gets annoying. Mostly though I'd just like the gun to operate like my 1911 or every other gun I own or is out there.

As I said before I tolerated it on my Smith cause I could decock the pistol without the mag in place thanks to the decocker, but if I wanted to dry fire I needed the mag, but as long as I could drop the hammer without putting it in I wasn't that annoyed. It is nice to dry fire without a mag though as it's one less thing you have to check and keep track of. I can see both sides of the arguments with disconnects in engagement roles where one might need to fire their sole chambered round, or if they need to disable their gun in the event it's being taken away from them though, but as a gun enthusiast, I can't really approve of them.

[k9870]

If i was struggling with somebody i doubt dropping my mag would be a reaction. And if something malfunctioned (like a feed lip breaking, etc.) and the mag didnt fully seat, then the round in the chamber may be all you get and youll have to load 1 at a time. Also, at the range with new shooters its common to load 1 at a time to check for flinching and such. And In competitions you need to end a run by dropping amag popping the chamber, decock by pulling trigger so a disconenct would be a bitch.

[S&Wshooter]

.45 ACP High Power

/thread

[k9870]

Could the HP handle it? Youd need to expand the frame for sure.

[S&Wshooter]

Originally Posted by k9870

Could the HP handle it? Youd need to expand the frame for sure.

You'd have to make it bigger.

I read in one of my gun books that a company out of Europe makes a .45 High Power clone, but I haven't seen any proof