Heckler & Koch - overrated?

[Gunmaster45]

Are those pistols yours jdun? I always thought it was ridiculous that the .45 has to be as big as a damn Desert Eagle. Now thread a supressor on it and you might as well use a rifle!

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by jdun

G3 does kick like a mule from my own experience.

HK Mk.23 and Desert Eagle.



The Norwegian are having a lot of trouble with their HK416. Their Special Force are sticking with the Canadian made AR15, ie C7.

The G36 use a modified AR-18 action. It's still an AR-18 action. The most accurate auto loading rifle is the AR15 DI.

I don't think I've ever fired a .308 that didn't kick like a mule. Which is why I'm not such a big fan of this caliber in rifles intended for infantry (unlike some old-skoolers in the gun-owning community who argue we should have never ditched the M14 for the M16).

Very nice pics, BTW. The Mark 23 is definitely a huge weapon. I'm not so sure the whole "offensive handgun" concept was really one of the DoD's better ideas.

[Yournamehere]

The M14 is HUGE. I couldn't imagine uising that thing at all anywhere except matches or something. Also, why is that Desert Eagle pink?

[jdun]

Let just said the G3 has more kick then an M14, FAL, or 12 gauge shotgun. The roller blow back system is horrible on recoil.

As far as I know no Special Force personnel use HK mk.23 or Desert Eagle.

[k9870]

The HK23 is approved, the Deag, well no. Unreliable and is basically like putting a brick in a holster. It's a video game noob gun. And everybody likes the 416, except people who notice it shoots like 4moa. HK responds by saying accuracy doesn't matter in a close quarters weapon.

[jdun]

The M14 and FAL are almost the same size. Of the three major battle rifles that was use in that era (M14, FAL, G3), the G3 was by far the worst. The AR10 which came a little later didn't take off until now.

I don't think any Special Force unit have the Mk.23 in their armory. I know that the standard MP5 are out. However, they do have the MP5SD but SEAL don't train with them from what SMGLee posted.

[k9870]

The mp5 is popular because integrally supressed subguns can easily be used effectively, silencing an m4 you need subsonic ammo that would make the 556 a popgun as it needs velocity for the tiny round to work.

[Rockwolf66]

Originally Posted by jdun

The M14 and FAL are almost the same size. Of the three major battle rifles that was use in that era (M14, FAL, G3), the G3 was by far the worst. The AR10 which came a little later didn't take off until now.

That depends on who you talk to. I know of a guy who used to have all sorts of fun and games back in Northern Ireland. The Unit he was with Issued the MP-5K, the HK-53 and the G-3KA4 for various reasons. The weapons were liked because they were compact and very accurate. Now while I personally prefer the M-14E2 or a short barreled FN-FAL if I had to train and equip a unit for a fluid urban battlfield I would buy the H&K roller lock family of weapons. The reasoning is that it simplifies training and logistics.

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by Rockwolf66

That depends on who you talk to. I know of a guy who used to have all sorts of fun and games back in Northern Ireland. The Unit he was with Issued the MP-5K, the HK-53 and the G-3KA4 for various reasons. The weapons were liked because they were compact and very accurate. Now while I personally prefer the M-14E2 or a short barreled FN-FAL if I had to train and equip a unit for a fluid urban battlfield I would buy the H&K roller lock family of weapons. The reasoning is that it simplifies training and logistics.

Ah, that's good, hope he was laying the smackdown on those IRA bastards.

Anyway, H&Ks may be accurate, and it may be simpler to train your guys if you have a whole family of weapons that used basically the same operating system, but fact is that the roller-locking H&K rifles have pretty poor ergonomics.

[Zombees]

It's funny, I always thought the MP5 was so popular because it was an excellent weapon. Like "The Number one SMG in the world" kind of excellent. Since the MP5 dominates the media so much, I assumed it was highly favored by Tactical teams and Special Forces people. Even on the news, when they show SWAT teams, most of the time they're carrying MP5s or M4s(then again, I haven't watched the news in awhile...). I'm sure it's still a fine weapon, just not the Godly SMG that Hollywood and Video games seems to make it be.

On the topic of H&K's other weapons, for a while I really did think the 416 was superior to the M4. And this wasn't based off videogames. I remeber reading an article about a year ago, which brought into question the M4's reliability. There were a few testimonys, from US soldiers stationed in Iraq, regarding jamming and weapon malfunctions. It was mentioned those problems could be solved by daily cleanings, but sometimes soldiers don't have time to maintain their weapons. Of course, the article's solution was the HK 416, which supposedly "had the M4's excellent handling, with the durability of an AK47".
There was also a mention of Special Forces teams trying the 416 and loving it. So I assumed that the 416 was a superior weapon. After all, Special Forces are some of the toughest guys on the planet, if they like it, it has to be good, right?
Thinking back on it, I can't help but wonder if that article may have just been propaganda from HK themselves...

That also brings up the Mk. 23. Once again, I assumed it was a great weapon because it was issued to... the NAVY SEALS! The SEALs are the toughest hombres on the planet, if they're using it, then it must be awsome! Right?

See, this is my problem, I never base my opinions on guns from games, because they're always altered to keep the gameplay balanced. But when you mention "Special Forces" in the same sentence as a gun brand, I immediatly assume it has to be a superior weapon.