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  #11  
Old 02-18-2011, 07:50 AM
Mazryonh Mazryonh is offline
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Originally Posted by MT2008 View Post
What would be the point of trying to manufacture full-auto AKs when there are 100 million of them in the world and they can be illegally purchased/imported with such ease? It would be redundant.
I said the "AK-47 of SMGs," in other words a fully-automatic SMG with the reliability and ease of construction of an AK-47. Something like that would be ideal for those with a predilection for indiscriminate carnage and mayhem since it would be more concealable than an AK-47 and could in theory be easier to get ammo for. It's probably a lot easier to get straw buyers to buy individually small amounts of pistol ammo that is then used for illicit, untraceable SMGs (since they never had serial numbers in the first place) than to buy rifle ammunition without raising lots of red flags.

From what I've seen, the "wrong people" will try to exploit gaps in law enforcement methods when they can. After using metal detectors on airplane passengers before they boarded became more common, the shoe bomber came along, succeeded by the underwear bomber after airports required potential passengers to take off their footwear. Once many stores started rejecting 50 and 100 dollar bills, I remember hearing that counterfeits of 20 dollar bills started to become more widespread--at least until paper currency authenticators started becoming more common. I guess the correct circumstances haven't arrived yet, though.

I'd call these hypothetical home-brew SMGs "Saturday Night Sundances" myself (based off the term "Saturday Night Special" used for junk guns), but the Sundance comes from "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" when you want to go out guns blazing.
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  #12  
Old 02-18-2011, 03:21 PM
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If you just want "indiscriminate carnage and mayhem," I would think improvised explosives would be cheaper and easier way to go. And any plan to open fire on a crowd of people is basically a suicide mission anyway, and again, improvised explosives are the way to go if that's how you want to go out. Insurgents in Iraq HAD access to automatic weapons, and still chose to go that way.

And why even bother with pistol ammo? (I can't imagine a place that would have restrictions on semi-auto rifles, but not in pistol ammo.) Wouldn't it be easier just to make an automatic nail gun? It's like something the A-team would whip up in a rousing montage. And all you'd need would be a hardware store.

But, if you just wanted to do it as (an illegal) project, I guess all you'd need would be access to a machine shop.
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Old 02-18-2011, 04:51 PM
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If I understood what the OP was asking correctly, then this topic about "Khyber Pass Guns" should be of relevance to this discussion.

http://forum.imfdb.org/showthread.php?t=1168
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Old 02-18-2011, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by funkychinaman View Post

Wouldn't it be easier just to make an automatic nail gun? It's like something the A-team would whip up in a rousing montage. And all you'd need would be a hardware store.
.
Yeah, but it would have insanely low stopping power. It wouldn't have the same kind of force behind it as a bullet does, and there most likely wouldn't be much cavitization. I bet they'd have awesome penetration if you could get enough power behind them, though
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Mazryonh View Post
Something like that would be ideal for those with a predilection for indiscriminate carnage and mayhem
As Funkychinaman pointed out, anyone who wants to carry out "indiscriminate carnage" is better off using explosives than firearms. And if we're talking about manufacturing, it's much easier to manufacture explosives than guns.

But I'm not sure why this would matter to criminals because most criminals do not aspire to carry out "indiscriminate carnage". Terrorists are another story, of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazryonh View Post
It's probably a lot easier to get straw buyers to buy individually small amounts of pistol ammo that is then used for illicit, untraceable SMGs (since they never had serial numbers in the first place) than to buy rifle ammunition without raising lots of red flags.
What place in the world are we talking about here?

If it's the U.S., you are clearly wrong. ANY time of rifle ammo raises far fewer flags than pistol ammo. When was the last time you even bought ammo (do you own any firearms)? I have to show my driver's license to the cashier at Dick's every time I buy 9x19mm. Whereas I've never had to show my license when buying .223 or 7.62x39mm.

If you are talking about the rest of world, I would venture that there is more 7.62x39mm floating around than almost any other caliber, just as there are more AKs than any other type of small arm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazryonh View Post
From what I've seen, the "wrong people" will try to exploit gaps in law enforcement methods when they can.
Not when they can; when they need to. Very big difference.

Right now, there just isn't much of a need for anyone in the U.S. (assuming that's what we're talking about) to manufacture firearms - whether full-auto AKs or SMGs - because full-auto doesn't have too many practical uses and semi-auto clones of the latest military/LE weapons are readily available in the U.S.
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Spartan198 View Post
If I understood what the OP was asking correctly, then this topic about "Khyber Pass Guns" should be of relevance to this discussion.

http://forum.imfdb.org/showthread.php?t=1168
Yep, that's the thread I was looking for. I remember I tried to find it in response to this topic, but couldn't. Thanks for retrieving it.

BTW, I also read that Aum Shinrikyo (the Japanese nationalist group which carried out the 1995 Tokyo subway attacks) actually purchased the tooling necessary to manufacture AKs, and successfully imported it from Russia into Japan. They wanted to arm their entire membership with AKs, but for reasons that I don't remember, they weren't able to manufacture very many of the weapons.
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