imfdb.org  

Go Back   imfdb.org > The Forum > imfdb

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-12-2012, 11:59 PM
Spartan198's Avatar
Spartan198 Spartan198 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The scorched state of California
Posts: 2,287
Default How is a "gun platform" defined?

I was looking at the R2B: Return to Base page and it lists numerous aircraft, helicopters, and ships as "gun platforms", even ones that don't carry any IMFDb-approved armament (like the B-2 stealth bomber) or don't appear to have any onboard weapons at all (a helicopter carrier).

Furthermore, the author just simply identifies the platform (e.g., an F-15 fighter) instead of identifying the actual gun on said gun platform.

Is there a defined standard here as to what constitutes a gun platform other than "it has a weapon on it"?
__________________
"The gun has played a critical role in history. An invention which has been praised and denounced... served hero and villain alike... and carries with it moral responsibility. To understand the gun is to better understand history."

“What is morality in any given time or place? It is what the majority then and there happen to like, and immorality is what they dislike.” - Alfred North Whitehead
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-13-2012, 12:35 AM
commando552 commando552 is offline
IMFDB Admin
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: England
Posts: 543
Default

IMO, the "Gun Platform" section should list guns that do not meet the regular IMFDB standard for inclusion. For example, crew served artillery pieces, tank guns, aircraft cannons, stuff like that. The gun platform section is a relatively new thing that has started being used so there are no standards for it, but we should probably come up with some. For example, I think the sections should still be listed by the gun name rather than the vehicle (we are a weapons, not a vehicle database, and just throwing up a "Northrop F-5 Freedom Fighter" entry with no information about what weapon it carries, if any, provides nothing).

This leads on to a bigger discussion, of if we are going to allow listing of gun/weapons platforms, should we make a page for them? If for no other reason than as a place to store a bit of information and pictured so that they can be found by other users, rather than uploading multiple images of the same weapon.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-13-2012, 12:37 AM
funkychinaman's Avatar
funkychinaman funkychinaman is offline
IMFDB & Forum Admin
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 2,611
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan198 View Post
I was looking at the R2B: Return to Base page and it lists numerous aircraft, helicopters, and ships as "gun platforms", even ones that don't carry any IMFDb-approved armament (like the B-2 stealth bomber) or don't appear to have any onboard weapons at all (a helicopter carrier).

Furthermore, the author just simply identifies the platform (e.g., an F-15 fighter) instead of identifying the actual gun on said gun platform.

Is there a defined standard here as to what constitutes a gun platform other than "it has a weapon on it"?
I thought he did ID the M61 in the F-15.
__________________
"Me fail English? That's unpossible!"
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-13-2012, 12:38 AM
funkychinaman's Avatar
funkychinaman funkychinaman is offline
IMFDB & Forum Admin
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 2,611
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by commando552 View Post
IMO, the "Gun Platform" section should list guns that do not meet the regular IMFDB standard for inclusion. For example, crew served artillery pieces, tank guns, aircraft cannons, stuff like that. The gun platform section is a relatively new thing that has started being used so there are no standards for it, but we should probably come up with some. For example, I think the sections should still be listed by the gun name rather than the vehicle (we are a weapons, not a vehicle database, and just throwing up a "Northrop F-5 Freedom Fighter" entry with no information about what weapon it carries, if any, provides nothing).

This leads on to a bigger discussion, of if we are going to allow listing of gun/weapons platforms, should we make a page for them? If for no other reason than as a place to store a bit of information and pictured so that they can be found by other users, rather than uploading multiple images of the same weapon.
BTW, I have a bunch of photos I took at the 1st Cav and 4th ID museums in Fort Hood. I can upload them for users to use, rather than scouring for images across the internet.
__________________
"Me fail English? That's unpossible!"
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-13-2012, 12:40 AM
Spartan198's Avatar
Spartan198 Spartan198 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The scorched state of California
Posts: 2,287
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by funkychinaman View Post
I thought he did ID the M61 in the F-15.
I looked at it again and, yeah, he did. I missed it the first time. For all intents and purposes, the "gun platform" section on the page seems to only be for identifying the aircraft and ships themselves, which I'm sure is not our department.
__________________
"The gun has played a critical role in history. An invention which has been praised and denounced... served hero and villain alike... and carries with it moral responsibility. To understand the gun is to better understand history."

“What is morality in any given time or place? It is what the majority then and there happen to like, and immorality is what they dislike.” - Alfred North Whitehead
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-13-2012, 01:01 AM
SPEMack618 SPEMack618 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Georgia
Posts: 742
Default

Yeah, can someone answer me this, I thought we were suppose to limit pages to weapons that could be employed by an idividual rifle company.

ie. mortars, crew served machines gun, and recoiless rifles would be the biggest we went.

So where do vulcan cannons and five inch naval gun come into play?
__________________
I like to think, that before that Navy SEAL double tapped bin Laden in the head, he kicked him, so that we could truly say we put a boot in his ass.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-13-2012, 01:53 AM
Rockwolf66's Avatar
Rockwolf66 Rockwolf66 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Oregon
Posts: 812
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPEMack618 View Post
Yeah, can someone answer me this, I thought we were suppose to limit pages to weapons that could be employed by an idividual rifle company.

ie. mortars, crew served machines gun, and recoiless rifles would be the biggest we went.

So where do vulcan cannons and five inch naval gun come into play?
We list the Vulcan Cannon as there is at least one of them in a Canadian Film Armory. You can see it in XXX or Death Race.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-13-2012, 02:45 AM
funkychinaman's Avatar
funkychinaman funkychinaman is offline
IMFDB & Forum Admin
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 2,611
Default

From the rules:

"Though we do list a variety of weapons in the individual movie/TV/anime/Videogame pages, that's just for the sake of being 100% complete for that page. With the exception of grenades (which we do allow), the only weapons which merit an individual page in the GUNS Category are any individual or crew served weapon that fires in a DIRECT FIRE role. Thus an RPG-7 qualifies as does an M134 Minigun. A grenade launcher is also used in the direct fire role. Though a flamethrower is not a firearm, it fires it's payload in a direct fire role (i.e. aimed directly line of sight at the item/person to be destroyed). What we do not allow are weapons which are too large to be operated by either an individual or small crew or are used primarily as indirect fire delivery systems. This disqualifies fuel air bombs, all air dropped bombs, mortars, artillery, IEDs, most explosive ordnance (other than a commonly issued grenade), cruise missiles, or the guns on a Naval battleship. Even the M230 Chain Gun has been used by crews in direct fire roles (not mounted on a helicopter nose) (at least one AC-130 Spectre Gunship has fired an M230 from a side firing platform, manned by the aircraft's gunners). This rule applies to individual pages in the Guns Category. Feel free to identify ANY military weapons system that you can verify on the movie or television pages. The pages have "Gun Platform" sections just for that purpose, which allows us to denote tactical military vehicles, boats or aircraft which possess a primary (and sometimes secondary) offensive armament.? [emphasis mine]
__________________
"Me fail English? That's unpossible!"
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-13-2012, 09:05 AM
Evil Tim's Avatar
Evil Tim Evil Tim is offline
IMFDB & Forum Admin
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The surface of the sun
Posts: 740
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by commando552 View Post
The gun platform section is a relatively new thing that has started being used so there are no standards for it, but we should probably come up with some.
Actually it's not, it's a very old thing we kind of forget and then remembered again. It's primarily supposed to be, as far as I can tell, for identifying vehicles and listing their armament rather than listing all of it with separate gun entries, since obviously you're not going to find many tanks mounting non-standard guns.

I think what would be useful is an "other weapons" gallery page just to put all the images of weapons that don't qualify for their own pages in one place and avoid multiple uploads. Gun platforms should probably stick to live-action movies where they're physically present, unarmed vehicles should try to either get a screenshot with them in an ID in the caption or put them in trivia. Tanks you can usually handle by listing their coaxial weapon.

There's never going to be an internet movie artillery database, so if something appears and we know what it is, we should document it on the work's page. The rule is mainly about making gun pages for weapons which are unlikely to belong to a movie prop company; that would mean the biggest thing you could give a gun page to would probably be the 88mm FlaKs which some European armourers can get hold of.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-13-2012, 04:26 PM
SPEMack618 SPEMack618 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Georgia
Posts: 742
Default

So basically, if you can identify the weapon system and the platform, then do so, so long as small arms and direct fire weapons are identified first.
__________________
I like to think, that before that Navy SEAL double tapped bin Laden in the head, he kicked him, so that we could truly say we put a boot in his ass.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.