Stance on gun control

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by Jcordell

You are right. And with that then how long before there is a move to repeal other amendments which are just getting in the way of doing things. Maybe not the 1st but the 4th or 5th amendments are a pain in the neck aren't they. I suppose we could repeal the 3rd and nobody would care - until the military started quartering troops on your property because of housing shortages or budget issues.

No easy answers are there.

Strangely enough, NPR (about 5 years ago) had a piece which made essentially the same points. The Constitution isn't perfect, which is why there is a mechanism to change it, but just because you can (in theory) doesn't mean you should. And certainly, we should have learned our lesson by now with Prohibition working out the way it did.

[funkychinaman]

This refusal to compromise is going to doom this country. This country was built on compromise, right or wrong. In the past, I also had the sense that both parties were motivated by the best interests of the country and its people, rather than just trolling and getting invited to cable news.

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by funkychinaman

This refusal to compromise is going to doom this country. This country was built on compromise, right or wrong. In the past, I also had the sense that both parties were motivated by the best interests of the country and its people, rather than just trolling and getting invited to cable news.

I did, too, but in retrospect, that was youthful naivety on my part. Politicians are always motivated by ego and power, and I can't imagine that was different 25 years ago. It's just that our polity back then was a lot more rational, because times were different (end of the Cold War, budget surplus, pre-9/11, pre-recession, etc.), so politicians weren't incentivized to troll POTUS at the State of the Union or pander to favored groups along tribal lines in order to get attention on the news and social media. In the 1990s, the Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Marjorie Taylor Greenes of the era were fringe figures who could never get elected to Congress; now they're supported by large pluralities in their respective parties (though not majorities – yet).

One other point I will make: The Ukraine War has made it a lot more difficult for me to be as comfortable aligning myself with the right, because I find it abhorrent that so many conservatives are openly sympathetic towards Russia in the conflict.

[Jcordell]

Originally Posted by MT2008

One other point I will make: The Ukraine War has made it a lot more difficult for me to be as comfortable aligning myself with the right, because I find it abhorrent that so many conservatives are openly sympathetic towards Russia in the conflict.

I understand. It is also interesting to note that in the Thirties as the Japanese Empire and Nazis were causing problems it was many a popular commentator (Father Coughlin) and politician (Huey Long) in the U.S. who publicly stated that they sided or at least sympathized with Germany and were against the U.S. getting involved. The more things change I suppose.

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by Jcordell

I understand. It is also interesting to note that in the Thirties as the Japanese Empire and Nazis were causing problems it was many a popular commentator (Father Coughlin) and politician (Huey Long) in the U.S. who publicly stated that they sided or at least sympathized with Germany and were against the U.S. getting involved. The more things change I suppose.

Yes, I do recognize that there has always been a minority of the U.S. population (and their elected representatives) who do not support the U.S. when it is at war, either because they are openly sympathetic to the enemy, or because they hate the U.S. government more than the wartime opponent.

However, this is the first time since World War II (as far as I know) that the loudest anti-war voices have come from the Republican Party, and not the Democrats. It's very disconcerting to me to hear GOP legislators accusing the Biden administration of "warmongering"; they sound a lot like the Democrats who opposed the Iraq War 20 years ago.

[funkychinaman]

Originally Posted by MT2008

Yes, I do recognize that there has always been a minority of the U.S. population (and their elected representatives) who do not support the U.S. when it is at war, either because they are openly sympathetic to the enemy, or because they hate the U.S. government more than the wartime opponent.

However, this is the first time since World War II (as far as I know) that the loudest anti-war voices have come from the Republican Party, and not the Democrats. It's very disconcerting to me to hear GOP legislators accusing the Biden administration of "warmongering"; they sound a lot like the Democrats who opposed the Iraq War 20 years ago.

I hate to admit it, but at least they had a point with Iraq, we were invading another country. Here we're just sending money and equipment (and only money and equipment) to an ally fighting for national survival. Sending troops is another matter, but if just a matter of writing checks, passing off surplus equipment and/or keeping the military industrial complex churning, keep it coming. We've already spent trillions on the Cold War, (along with thousands of lives in proxy wars) this is nothing.

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by funkychinaman

I hate to admit it, but at least they had a point with Iraq, we were invading another country. Here we're just sending money and equipment (and only money and equipment) to an ally fighting for national survival. Sending troops is another matter, but if just a matter of writing checks, passing off surplus equipment and/or keeping the military industrial complex churning, keep it coming. We've already spent trillions on the Cold War, (along with thousands of lives in proxy wars) this is nothing.

Oh, I don't dispute that invading Iraq was a massive strategic mistake in retrospect. But then as now, the anti-war faction (which was primarily on the left) was full of people who were faster to blame U.S. policy in the Middle East for 9/11 and subsequent terrorist attacks, and who generally were unsympathetic to the U.S.' fight against radical Islamic terrorism. My point is, many of the same conservatives who are now refusing to support the U.S.' fight against Russian imperialism are the same folks who would have decried the anti-war left for making the same types of arguments during the GWOT.

And yes, I agree that the anti-war, isolationist right's criticism of the current conflict makes no sense. There are plenty of valid arguments to be made RE why we should exercise caution in Ukraine...the cost of the war effort is definitely not one of them.

[Spartan198]

Originally Posted by MT2008

And yes, I agree that the anti-war, isolationist right's criticism of the current conflict makes no sense. There are plenty of valid arguments to be made RE why we should exercise caution in Ukraine...the cost of the war effort is definitely not one of them.

It's an attempt to stick it to the "other side," plain and simple.

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by Spartan198

It's an attempt to stick it to the "other side," plain and simple.

That, and the fact that there are a (depressingly high) number of conservatives in this country who have been won over by Putin's charm offensive where he's tried to portray himself as a guardian of the values that they hold dear. Sadly, his con-man tactics have been effective. (Side note: When it comes to gun rights, Russia is hardly a role model for the U.S.)