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#51
03-23-2009, 05:08 AM
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By the way, it's very well known that terrorist groups have bought guns from the U.S., from FFLs. In the 1970s and early-80s, the Provisional IRA used to buy AR-15s and AR-18s (both of which they called "Armalites") over here - they had supporters in the U.S. who bought the guns for them and sent them by boat. In the 1990s, the IRA also bought Barrett M82s and M90s from the U.S., same method. And most of the guns they bought were civilian semi-auto models, purchased at gun stores. I've read interviews with IRA gun runners where they specifically stated that this was what they did.
My point being, if an Irish terrorist group bought guns in the U.S. from across the Atlantic, why wouldn't Mexican cartels (who live right next door to us) do the same thing? 
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#52
03-24-2009, 04:25 AM
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No carbines doesn't mean it is made for civilians. All it means is a 16" barrel or less. Law Enforcement, military, and civilians all use carbines. It's a moot point. If you don't believe me go to a gun board and ask.
How is manufacturing your own weapons cost less? Well, if an AK cost $500 each, the cost to smuggle the weapon into Mexico, danger of getting arrested, and fees for the buyers. Which is cost effective, produce it in Mexico/Latin America for $50 each or buy it from the USA? If you go to Youtube you will find many videos where drug gangs use fully automatic weapons against the police. Those weapons didn't came from the USA. If the serial number is grind off how can they said it came for the USA? If you bought a gun from a FFL it is log into the book. Then you sell it to a private individual it, it doesn't log into the book. That is correct. However, what the Mexicans are saying is that ten of thousands of arms are coming to their country from the USA. That means they needs ten of thousands of straw buyers to not be trace back. Do you think out of those straw buyers that none of them would rat on the Mexicans? If one straw buyer bought over 1000 guns and all of them landed in Mexico, would that be easy to find out by the ATF? Disregard the propaganda in the video. Notice the primitive tools these kids use to make firearms? Making firearms isn't hard. It's very simple. American kids graduate out of high school without any trade skills whatsoever. Hence you got a lot of people thinking that firearms needs a magic wand and a clean room to produce. There are many videos floating around the net. This video is well known, tho. http://rpginn.com/index.php?option=c...=365&Itemid=39 Don't me started with Yeman. Yeman has the largest ratio of gun per person in the world. Every villages produce their own weapons. Last edited by jdun; 03-24-2009 at 04:41 AM.
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#53
03-24-2009, 06:05 AM
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MT2008,
While yes the IRA did get a fair number of assault rifles and those two Barrets from american Sympathisers the bulk of their weapons came from Nations that were unfriendly to the US. I am talking about thousands of G-3A3 battle rifles from Lybia and according to the IRA itself surface to air missiles and metric tons of Semtex. The US is the worlds largest legitimate arms dealer in the world. We literally arm entire countries with our weapons. After we legitamatly deliver them to a forign country we are no longer in control of those weapons. The second Largest weapons dealer legitimatly and largest illegitamate arms dealer is China. Literally the Chinese have been caught trying to sneak entire semi-trucks filled with Military hardware into Mexico. I'm not talking underfolder AK varients and 100 round drums but Mortars, RPGs and the like. As far as Yemen goes, It's a horrible little country at times and for about a ten year period people I know were jumping the border to let the locals know that training and harboring terrorists was a no no. The Ironic thing is that among my family the only person to be shot in the last 50 years was a civilian on the Saudi/Yemen border.
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#54
03-25-2009, 02:38 AM
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Quote:
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And people are getting arrested for smuggling guns at the border. The image of the Five-Seven I posted was a gun captured in such circumstances. Quote:
Also, as I've said before, I hope you don't assume ALL of the weapons used by the gangs are full-auto? The media may just be reporting it incorrectly. Quote:
Quote:
Also, referring to the IRA example: The IRA's chief gun runner in the U.S. said that in the 1970s, he bought 2,500 guns for the IRA. It was 10 years before he got caught. Gun laws are stricter since then in the U.S., and the ATF more alert, but surely you don't think Mexicans might have other ways? Quote:
However, I have seen many pictures of the weapons being confiscated from the drug gangs. Too many of them look like guns that are made specifically for the American civilian market, and their build quality is too perfect to have been built by Mexicans. When I see stuff like Glocks, Five-Sevens, PS90s, AKs with thumbhole stocks, ARs with 16" barrels, I think it's a safe bet that these guns were bought in the U.S. If I were a Mexican drug dealer, that is where I would go to get my guns. It is the most accessible and simplest place to start. Last edited by MT2008; 03-25-2009 at 02:50 AM.
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#55
03-25-2009, 02:47 AM
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Quote:
Qaddafi gave them thousands of East German and Romanian-made AKMs (in fact, I think the IRA received more AKs than they had guerrillas to use them), plus RPG-7s, DShKs, SA-7s, flamethrowers, FN MAGs, and a whole bunch of "Wonder Nines" (mostly Taurus PT92s). But before Qaddafi started sending them weapons, the IRA relied upon Irish-Americans to buy them weapons. Some of the "Armalites" in the IRA's possession were actually M16A1s stolen from the U.S. Army (some M60s, too), but most were AR-15s and AR-18s from American gun stores. I think they may have also received some HK91s and Mini-14s (an IRA gun runner mentioned this in his interview, but the shipment he was referring to got intercepted, so maybe those didn't reach the Provos). Note also that since the American and Libyan pipelines were closed down, the splinter IRA factions have had little luck buying more weaponry. They bought some stuff on the black market in the former Yugoslavia and Czech Republic, but it's been much harder without a source as steady as Qaddafi or the Irish-American community. Quote:
But right now, it does seem that many of the guns being confiscated in Mexico are the same types that are available (in some cases, design for) on the American civilian market. Saying this does not mean endorsing gun control; it is simply a reality that it does us no good to deny. Last edited by MT2008; 03-25-2009 at 02:51 AM.
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#56
03-26-2009, 04:40 PM
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If anyone's curious, you can read this article written by the research firm where I used to be an intern:
Mexico: Dynamics of the Gun Trade October 24, 2007 | 1547 GMT By Fred Burton and Scott Stewart The number of drug-related killings in Mexico in 2007 already has surpassed 2,000, an increase of 300 over the same period last year, according to statistics reported by Mexican media outlets. Moreover, sources familiar with the issue say police officials in some jurisdictions have been purposely underreporting drug-related homicides, suggesting that the real body count is even higher. In addition to the Mexican drug cartels that engage in torture and killings (at times involving beheadings), armed criminal gangs are notorious kidnappers — prompting some to call Mexico the “kidnapping capital of the world.” This has resulted in a boom for armored car manufacturers and security companies, given that most wealthy people living in the country own armored vehicles, and many employ executive protection teams to provide security for themselves, their families and their homes. Additionally, heavily armed criminal gangs regularly commit armed robberies, muggings and express kidnappings. The one constant in these violent crimes is guns. Mexico’s robust gun culture stretches back to revolutions, counterrevolutions and revolutionary bandits such as Pancho Villa. Because of this culture, guns are common in Mexico — despite strict gun-control laws and licensing procedures. This demand for guns has created an illicit market that not only is intimately related to the U.S. market for illegal narcotics but also, in many ways, mirrors the dynamics of that market. Drugs flow north and guns flow south — resulting in handsome profits for those willing to run the risks. Mexican Laws Similar to the U.S. Constitution, the 1917 Mexican Constitution guarantees Mexico’s inhabitants the right to have “arms of any kind in their possession for their protection and legitimate defense.” However, the constitution includes many caveats on private citizens’ ownership of guns, prohibiting those “expressly forbidden by law” and those “the nation may reserve for the exclusive use of the army, navy or national guard.” Furthermore, Mexican law calls for long prison terms for violators. Mexico, then, has some of the world’s strictest gun-control laws — making guns difficult to obtain legally. Average citizens who want to purchase guns for self-defense or recreational purposes must first get approval from the government. Then, because there are no private-sector gun stores in the country, they must buy weapons through the Defense Department’s Arms and Ammunition Marketing Division (UCAM). In accordance with Mexican law, the UCAM carefully limits the calibers of guns it sells. For example, it does not sell handguns larger than a .380 or .38 Special. Also, under Mexican law, popular handguns such as .357 magnum revolvers and 9 mm pistols are exclusively reserved for the armed forces. Regardless of these efforts, the illicit arms market has been thriving for decades — not only because firearm laws are not evenly enforced but also because criminals have found a way to circumvent efforts to stem the flow of guns. Moreover, not all illegal guns are in the hands of cartel members and street criminals. A healthy percentage of them are purchased by affluent Mexicans who are not satisfied with the selection of calibers available through the UCAM. Sources say it is not at all unusual to find Mexicans who own prohibited .357 magnum revolvers or .45 caliber pistols for self-defense against kidnappers and armed robbers. In addition to ballistic considerations, Latin machismo is also a factor — some Mexican men want to own and carry powerful, large-caliber pistols. The Mechanics of the Gun Trade This mixture of the historical Mexican gun culture, machismo, strong desire for guns, lax enforcement of gun laws, official corruption and a raging cartel war has created a high demand for illegal guns. Guns sold on the black market in Mexico can fetch as much as 300 percent of their normal market value — a profit margin similar to that of the cocaine trafficked by the cartels. The laws of economics dictate that where there is a strong demand — and a considerable profit margin — entrepreneurs will devise ways to meet that demand. Of course, the illicit markets are no different from the legitimate economy in this respect, and a number of players have emerged to help supply Mexico’s appetite for illicit weaponry. Millions of Mexicans reside (legally and otherwise) in the United States, and the two countries conduct a staggering amount of commerce (legal and otherwise) across the border. In this context, then, when one considers that there are more gun stores in a typical small town in Texas than there are in all of Mexico City, it should come as no surprise that a large number of the weapons found on the illicit arms market in Mexico originated in the United States. In fact, Mexican officials say that as much as 90 percent of the illegal weapons they seize are of U.S. origin. The most obvious players in the gun trade are the cartels themselves, which not only have the financial resources to buy guns in the United States but also are in a position to receive guns in trade for narcotics from their distribution contacts north of the border. The traditional pattern for cartel operations over the past few decades has been to smuggle drugs north over the border and return with money and guns — many times over the same routes and by the same conveyances. In addition to the problem of the notoriously corrupt Mexican customs officials, efforts to stem the flow of guns into Mexico also have been hampered by technological limitations. For example, until recently, Mexican authorities lacked X-ray equipment to inspect vehicles entering the country, and this inspection capacity still remains limited.
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#57
03-26-2009, 04:41 PM
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The cartels also obtain weapons from contacts along their supply networks in South and Central America, where substantial quantities of military ordnance have been shipped over decades to supply insurgencies and counterinsurgencies. Explosives from domestic Mexican sources also are widely available and are generally less expensive than guns.
Aside from the cartels, other criminal syndicates are dedicated to the arms trade. These groups can range from small mom-and-pop operations involving a few individuals who obtain weapons from family members residing in the United States or Central America to large organizations with complex networks that buy dozens or hundreds of weapons at a time. As in other criminal enterprises in Mexico, such as drug smuggling or kidnapping, it is not unusual to find police officers and military personnel involved in the illegal arms trade. On Sept. 12, three high-ranking police commanders from Baja California and Baja California Sur states were arrested by U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) agents in Phoenix for illegally purchasing weapons at a gun show. (U.S. law prohibits foreigners from buying weapons.) Over the past few years, several Mexican government officials have been arrested on both sides of the border for participating in the arms trade. Although it is illegal for Mexican nationals to buy guns in the United States and for Americans to haul guns to Mexico, entrepreneurs have found a variety of ways to skirt such laws. Perhaps one of the least recognized ploys is plain old document fraud. Fake documents — which are easily obtained along the border — range in quality (and price) from poorly rendered counterfeits to genuine documents obtained with the assistance of corrupt government officials. Using such documents, a Mexican citizen can pose as a U.S. citizen and pass the required background checks to buy guns — unless, that is, the prospective gun buyer was foolish enough to assume the identity of an American with a criminal record. Perhaps the most common way to purchase guns is by using a “straw-man” buyer (sometimes in combination with document fraud). That is, paying a person with a clean record who has legal standing to buy the gun. This also is a tried-and-true tactic used by criminals in the United States who are ineligible to purchase guns due to prior convictions. The “straw man” in these cases often is a girlfriend or other associate who is paid to buy a gun for them. Also, with so many family relations spanning the border, it is easy for a Mexican citizen to ask an American relative to purchase a gun or guns on their behalf. While document fraud and straw-man purchases can be used to bypass the law and fool respectable gun dealers, not all gun dealers are respectable. Some will falsify their sales records in order to sell guns to people they know are not legally permitted to have them — especially if the guns are being sold at a premium price. ATF does conduct audits of gun dealers, but even after a steep decline in the number of federal firearms dealers over the past decade, there still are not enough inspectors to regularly audit the records of the more than 50,000 federal firearms license holders. This lack of oversight and the temptation of easy money cause some dealers to break the law knowingly. Guns also can be obtained for the Mexican black market through theft. The cartels traditionally have tasked groups of young street thugs in the United States with stealing items (such as pickup trucks and sport utility vehicles) for the cartels to use or resell in Mexico. Now, intelligence reports suggest that these thugs have begun to rob gun stores in towns along the border. One such group is the Gulf cartel-related “Zetitas” (little Zetas), which is active in the Texas cities of Houston, Laredo and San Antonio, as well as other places. A cartel connection is suspected when the weapons and ammunition stolen are popular with the cartels, such as assault rifles and FN Five-Seven pistols. The FN Five-Seven and the FN P-90 personal defense weapon shoot a 5.7 x 28 mm round that has been shown to penetrate body armor, as well as vehicle doors and windows. Because of this, they recently have become very popular with cartel enforcers, who have begun to call the weapons matapolicias — police killers. Several police officials have been killed with these guns this year — though officers also have been killed with .357 magnum revolvers, .45-caliber pistols and AK-47- or M-16-style assault rifles. Still, due to the rising popularity of the 5.7 x 28 mm weapons among cartel gunmen, many of these somewhat esoteric (and excellently manufactured) weapons are acquired in the United States and end up south of the border. Any time one of these weapons is connected to a crime on either side of the border, a cartel link should be considered. The gun problem in Mexico is similar to the drug problem in the United States in that it is extremely difficult to reduce the supply of the illicit items without first reducing the demand. Any small reduction in the supply leads to an increase in price, which further stimulates efforts to provide a supply. Therefore, as long as the demand for such weapons persists, people will continue to find creative ways to meet that demand and make a profit. With that demand being fed, at least in part, by drug cartels that are warring for control of drug trafficking routes into the United States, the two problems of drugs and guns will continue to be deeply intertwined.
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#58
03-26-2009, 06:22 PM
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Here's one we put out much more recently (this is the one that I helped with):
Worrying Signs from Border Raids November 12, 2008 | 1717 GMT By Fred Burton and Scott Stewart Last week, the Mexican government carried out a number of operations in Reynosa, Tamaulipas, aimed at Jaime “El Hummer” Gonzalez Duran, one of the original members of the brutal cartel group known as Los Zetas. According to Mexican government officials, Gonzalez Duran controlled the Zetas’ operations in nine Mexican states. The Nov. 7 arrest of Gonzalez Duran was a major victory for the Mexican government and will undoubtedly be a major blow to the Zetas. Taking Gonzalez Duran off the streets, however, is not the only aspect of these operations with greater implications. The day before Gonzalez Duran’s arrest, Mexican officials searching for him raided a safe house, where they discovered an arms cache that would turn out to be the largest weapons seizure in Mexican history. This is no small feat, as there have been several large hauls of weapons seized from the Zetas and other Mexican cartel groups in recent years. The weapons seized at the Gonzalez Duran safe house included more than 500 firearms, a half-million rounds of ammunition and 150 grenades. The cache also included a LAW rocket, two grenade launchers and a small amount of explosives. Along with the scores of assorted assault rifles, grenades and a handful of gaudy gold-plated pistols were some weapons that require a bit more examination: namely, the 14 Fabrique Nationale (FN) P90 personal defense weapons and the seven Barrett .50-caliber sniper rifles contained in the seizure. Matapolicias As previously noted, the FN Five-Seven pistol and FN P90 personal defense weapon are very popular with the various cartel enforcer groups operating in Mexico. The Five-Seven and the P90 shoot a 5.7 mm-by-28 mm round that has been shown to be effective in penetrating body armor as well as vehicle doors and windows. Because of this ability to punch through body armor, cartel enforcers call the weapons “matapolicias,” Spanish for “cop killers.” Of course, AK-47 and M-16-style assault rifles are also effective at penetrating body armor and vehicles, as are large-caliber hunting rifles such as the 30.06 and the .308. But the advantage of the Five-Seven and the P90 is that they provide this penetration capability in a much smaller — and thus far more concealable — package. The P90 is a personal defense weapon designed to be carried by tank crew members or combat support personnel who require a compact weapon capable of penetrating body armor. It is considered impractical for such soldiers to be issued full-size infantry rifles or even assault rifles, so traditionally these troops were issued pistols and submachine guns. The proliferation of body armor on the modern battlefield, however, has rendered many pistols and submachine guns that fire pistol ammunition ineffective. Because of this, support troops needed a small weapon that could protect them from armored troops; the P90 fits this bill. In fact, the P90 lends itself to anyone who needs powerful, concealable weapons. Protective security details, some police officers and some special operations forces operators thus have begun using the P90 and other personal defense weapons. The P90’s power and ability to be concealed also make it an ideal weapon for cartel enforcers intent on conducting assassinations in an urban environment — especially those stalking targets wearing body armor. The Five-Seven, which is even smaller than the P90, fires the same fast, penetrating cartridge. Indeed, cartel hit men have killed several Mexican police officers with these weapons in recent months. However, guns that fire the 5.7 mm-by-28 mm cartridge are certainly not the only type of weapons used in attacks against police — Mexican cops have been killed by many other types of weapons. Reach Out and Touch Someone While the P90 and Five-Seven are small and light, and use a small, fast round to penetrate armor, the .50-caliber cartridge fired by a Barrett sniper rifle is the polar opposite: It fires a huge chunk of lead. By way of comparison, the 5.7 mm-by-28 mm cartridge is just a little more than 1.5 inches long and has a 32-grain bullet. The .50-caliber Browning Machine Gun (BMG) cartridge is actually 12.7 mm by 99 mm, measures nearly 5.5 inches long and fires a 661-grain bullet. The P90 has a maximum effective range of 150 meters (about 165 yards), whereas a Barrett’s listed maximum effective range is 1,850 meters (about 2,020 yards) — and there are reports of coalition forces snipers in Afghanistan scoring kills at more than 2,000 meters (about 2,190 yards). The .50-BMG round not only will punch through body armor and normal passenger vehicles, it can defeat the steel plate armor and the laminated ballistic glass and polycarbonate windows used in lightly armored vehicles. This is yet another reminder that there is no such thing as a bulletproof car. The round is also capable of penetrating many brick and concrete block walls.
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#59
03-26-2009, 06:23 PM
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We have heard reports for years of cartels seeking .50-caliber sniper rifles made by Barrett and other U.S. manufacturers. Additionally, we have noted many reports of seizures from arms smugglers in the United States of these weapons bound for Mexico, or of the weapons being found in Mexican cartel safe houses — such as the seven rifles seized in Reynosa. Unlike the P90s, however, we cannot recall even one instance of these powerful weapons being used in an attack against another cartel or against a Mexican government target. This is in marked contrast to Ireland, where the Irish Republican Army used .50-caliber Barrett rifles obtained from the United States in many sniper attacks against British troops and the Royal Ulster Constabulary.
That Mexican cartels have not used these devastating weapons is surprising. There are in fact very few weapons in the arsenals of cartel enforcers that we have not seen used, including hand grenades, 40 mm grenades, LAW rockets and rocket-propelled grenades. Even though most intercartel warfare has occurred inside densely populated Mexican cities such as Tijuana, Ciudad Juarez and Nuevo Laredo — places where it would be very difficult to find a place to take a shot longer than a few hundred meters, much less a couple thousand — the power of the Barrett could be very effective for taking out targets wearing body armor, riding in armored vehicles, located inside the safe house of a rival cartel or even inside a government building. Also, unlike improvised explosive devices, which the cartels have avoided using for the most part, the use of .50-caliber rifles would not involve a high probability of collateral damage. This indicates that the reason the cartels have not used these weapons is to be found in the nature of snipers and sniping. Snipers Most military and police snipers are highly trained and very self-disciplined. Being a sniper requires an incredible amount of practice, patience and preparation. Aside from rigorous training in marksmanship, the sniper must also be trained in camouflage, concealment and movement. Snipers are often forced to lie immobile for hours on end. Additional training is required for snipers operating in urban environments, which offer their own set of challenges to the sniper; though historically, as seen in battles like Stalingrad, urban snipers can be incredibly effective. Snipers commonly deploy as part of a team of two, comprising a shooter and a spotter. This means two very self-disciplined individuals must be located and trained. The team must practice together and learn how to accurately estimate distances, wind speed, terrain elevation and other variables that can affect a bullet’s trajectory. An incredible amount of attention to detail is required for a sniper team to get into position and for their shots to travel several hundred meters and accurately, consistently strike a small target. In spite of media hype and popular fiction, criminals or terrorists commit very few true sniper attacks. For example, many of our sniper friends were very upset that the media chose to label the string of murders committed by John Mohammed and Lee Boyd Malvo as the “D.C. Sniper Case.” While Mohammed and Malvo did use concealment, they commonly shot at targets between 50 and 100 meters (about 55 yards to 110 yards) away. Therefore, calling Mohammed and Malvo snipers was a serious insult to the genuine article. The assassinations of President John F. Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr., as well as the killing of Dr. Bernard Slepian, also have been dubbed sniper attacks, but they actually were all shootings committed at distances of less than 100 meters. Of course, using a Barrett at short ranges (100 meters or less) is still incredibly effective and does not require a highly trained sniper — as a group of Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives special agents found out in 1993 when they attempted to serve search and arrest warrants at the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas. The agents were met with .50-caliber fire that ripped gaping holes through the Chevrolet Suburbans they sought cover behind. Many of the agents wounded in that incident were hit by the shrapnel created as the .50-caliber rounds punched through their vehicles. While it is extremely powerful, the Barrett is however a long, heavy weapon. If the sniper lacks training in urban warfare, it might prove very difficult to move around with the gun and also to find a concealed place to employ it. This may partially explain why the Mexican cartels have not used the weapons more. Moreover, while the Zetas originally comprised deserters from the Mexican military and over the years have shown an ability to conduct assaults and ambushes, we have not traditionally seen them deploy as snipers. Today, most of the original Zetas are now in upper management, and no longer serve as foot soldiers. The newer men brought into the Zetas include some former military and police officers along with some young gangster types; most of them lack the level of training possessed by the original Zetas. While the Zetas have also brought on a number of former Kaibiles, Guatemalan special operations forces personnel, most of them appear to be assigned as bodyguards for senior Zetas. This may mean we are not seeing the cartels employ snipers because their rank-and-file enforcers do not possess the discipline or training to function as snipers. Potential Problems Of course, criminal syndicates in possession of these weapons still pose a large potential threat to U.S. law enforcement officers, especially when the weapons are in the hands of people like Gonzalez Duran and his henchmen. According to an FBI intelligence memo dated Oct. 17 and leaked to the media, Gonzalez Duran appeared to have gotten wind of the planned operation against him. He reportedly had authorized those under his command to defend their turf at any cost, to include engagements with U.S. law enforcement agents. It is important to remember that a chunk of that turf was adjacent to the U.S. border and American towns, and that Reynosa — where Gonzalez Duran was arrested and the weapons were seized — is just across the border from McAllen, Texas. Armed with small, powerful weapons like the P90, cartel gunmen can pose a tremendous threat to any law enforcement officer who encounters them in a traffic stop or drug raid. Over the past several years, we have noted several instances of U.S. Border Patrol agents and other U.S. law enforcement officers being shot at from Mexico. The thought of being targeted by a weapon with the range and power of a .50-caliber sniper rifle would almost certainly send chills up the spine of any Border Patrol agent or sheriff’s deputy working along the border. Armed with assault rifles, hand grenades and .50-caliber sniper rifles, cartel enforcers have the potential to wreak havoc and outgun U.S. law enforcement officers. The only saving grace for U.S. law enforcement is that many cartel enforcers are often impaired by drugs or alcohol and tend to be impetuous and reckless. While the cartel gunmen are better trained than most Mexican authorities, their training does not stack up to that of most U.S. law enforcement officers. This was illustrated by an incident on Nov. 6 in Austin, Texas, when a police officer used his service pistol to kill a cartel gunman who fired on the officer with an AK-47. While the arrest of Gonzalez Duran and the seizure of the huge arms cache in Reynosa have taken some killers and weapons off the street, they are only one small drop in the bucket. There are many heavily armed cartel enforcers still at large in Mexico, and the violence is spreading over the border into the United States. Law enforcement officers in the United States therefore need to maintain a keen awareness of the threat.
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#60
04-02-2009, 06:53 PM
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Fox News now has an interesting article:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elec...umber-claimed/ It's at least a good start to pro-gunners providing proof that's been hearsay up to this point.
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