imfdb.org  

Go Back   imfdb.org > The Forum > Just Guns

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 05-04-2017, 11:42 AM
commando552 commando552 is offline
IMFDB Admin
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: England
Posts: 477
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by funkychinaman View Post
According to the article, the full sized pistol will be the M17, while the compact will be the M18. But isn't the trigger module the only serialized unit here? Isn't the frame a non-serialized component that can be easily swapped out? If so, why the different designations?
I think that the fact about the trigger module rather than the frame being serialised is kind of irrelevant in this case, as the M17 and M18 will use the same frame anyway with the slide being changed. As for the different designations, I imagine that individual pistols will never actually change between being full size or compacts. I suspect that the modularity of the frames and internal chassis is more of a manufacturing and maintenance benefit rather than being something that individual soldiers will ever do anything with. If in the long term it was decided that fewer M17s were needed and they wanted more M18s, I doubt it would be much of a problem for them to do the conversion and just redesignate them as M18s (guns have changed designation before when they have been upgraded, and they have also converted existing weapons into different weapons with a different designation). Also, if they didn't have a different designation it would be pretty confusing from a logistics standpoint as nobody would actually know what pistol was being referred to without qualifying it.

Last edited by commando552; 05-04-2017 at 11:45 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 06-29-2017, 08:04 AM
Spartan198's Avatar
Spartan198 Spartan198 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,961
Default

Glock has released photos of their MHS entries, for anyone interested.

https://kitup.military.com/2017/06/glock-inc.html
__________________
"The gun has played a critical role in history. An invention which has been praised and denounced... served hero and villain alike... and carries with it moral responsibility. To understand the gun is to better understand history."

“What is morality in any given time or place? It is what the majority then and there happen to like, and immorality is what they dislike.” - Alfred North Whitehead
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 07-08-2017, 11:39 AM
Spartan198's Avatar
Spartan198 Spartan198 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,961
Default

It seems Glock just won't accept that they were passed over.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...kly+Newsletter
__________________
"The gun has played a critical role in history. An invention which has been praised and denounced... served hero and villain alike... and carries with it moral responsibility. To understand the gun is to better understand history."

“What is morality in any given time or place? It is what the majority then and there happen to like, and immorality is what they dislike.” - Alfred North Whitehead
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 07-08-2017, 08:32 PM
funkychinaman's Avatar
funkychinaman funkychinaman is offline
IMFDB & Forum Admin
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 2,410
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan198 View Post
It seems Glock just won't accept that they were passed over.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...kly+Newsletter
65% of the global law enforcement market just isn't enough for them?
__________________
"Me fail English? That's unpossible!"
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 07-09-2017, 01:14 PM
Spartan198's Avatar
Spartan198 Spartan198 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,961
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by funkychinaman View Post
65% of the global law enforcement market just isn't enough for them?
SIG is no slouch, though. SEALs have been using the 226 with zero complaints for over 20 years now. And besides, what did Glock expect when their bid was effectively double what SIG's was? That they'd get picked just for being Glock? This isn't a contract to outfit a few thousand police officers, it's all four main branches of the armed forces, meaning probably over a million individual units easily.
__________________
"The gun has played a critical role in history. An invention which has been praised and denounced... served hero and villain alike... and carries with it moral responsibility. To understand the gun is to better understand history."

“What is morality in any given time or place? It is what the majority then and there happen to like, and immorality is what they dislike.” - Alfred North Whitehead
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 07-09-2017, 04:00 PM
MT2008's Avatar
MT2008 MT2008 is offline
IMFDB & Forum Admin
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,473
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan198 View Post
SIG is no slouch, though. SEALs have been using the 226 with zero complaints for over 20 years now. And besides, what did Glock expect when their bid was effectively double what SIG's was? That they'd get picked just for being Glock? This isn't a contract to outfit a few thousand police officers, it's all four main branches of the armed forces, meaning probably over a million individual units easily.
Actually, NSW switched over to the Glock 19.

I like SIGs, but the P320 is not one of my favorite SIG pistols, and I think the Army's requirements were misguided. Personally, I would have gone with Glock, given existing customer base in SOF units, and the fact that it is now a more mature design than the P320 family.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan198 View Post
It seems Glock just won't accept that they were passed over.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...kly+Newsletter
It's a lot of hot air, but I don't blame them for being frustrated.
__________________
Cry "Havoc," and let slip the hogs of war.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 07-09-2017, 08:07 PM
Mazryonh Mazryonh is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 232
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by funkychinaman View Post
65% of the global law enforcement market just isn't enough for them?
What is the 95th Rule of Acquisition? "Expand or die."

By the way, the lawsuit between Helga Glock and Gaston Glock was settled in Gaston's favour in early 2017. I have a feeling some highly-placed people in the company want some increased market share so as to help pay the legal fees.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 07-11-2017, 01:15 PM
Spartan198's Avatar
Spartan198 Spartan198 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,961
Default

From what I've read, the SIG and Glock both met specs with the performance differences between them trivial at best, so picking the cheaper option makes obvious sense. The Beretta 92 is widely believed to be inferior to the SIG 226 (an opinion I share), but can anyone say it hasn't proven to still be an excellent pistol over the years?

Glock is pushing for the MHS program to be restarted, but if it is, I suspect it will end up backfiring on them and get the program cancelled altogether.
__________________
"The gun has played a critical role in history. An invention which has been praised and denounced... served hero and villain alike... and carries with it moral responsibility. To understand the gun is to better understand history."

“What is morality in any given time or place? It is what the majority then and there happen to like, and immorality is what they dislike.” - Alfred North Whitehead

Last edited by Spartan198; 07-11-2017 at 02:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 07-11-2017, 02:09 PM
Excalibur's Avatar
Excalibur Excalibur is offline
IMFDB Admin
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 3,652
Send a message via AIM to Excalibur Send a message via MSN to Excalibur Send a message via Yahoo to Excalibur
Default

The whole underbidding of contacts is always a staple. We wish the best money can buy should be afforded to the guys in uniform but politics and costs will always put it down
__________________

"There's a fine line between not listening and not caring...I like to think I walk that line everyday of my life."

Blessed be the LORD, my rock, Who trains my hands for war, And my fingers for battle
Psalm 144:1

“It is always wrong to use force, unless it is more wrong not to.”
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 07-11-2017, 02:35 PM
Spartan198's Avatar
Spartan198 Spartan198 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,961
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
The whole underbidding of contacts is always a staple. We wish the best money can buy should be afforded to the guys in uniform but politics and costs will always put it down
Like I said, the performance differences between the SIG and Glock were trivial at best and both passed specs. If both pistols will do the job satisfactorily, what exactly makes the cheaper option bad? This is where that whole "lowest bidder" adage falls short; if two products offer equal capability, it makes no economic sense to get the more expensive one.
__________________
"The gun has played a critical role in history. An invention which has been praised and denounced... served hero and villain alike... and carries with it moral responsibility. To understand the gun is to better understand history."

“What is morality in any given time or place? It is what the majority then and there happen to like, and immorality is what they dislike.” - Alfred North Whitehead
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.