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Old 11-13-2009, 04:54 AM
Gunman69
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Default Lack of Classic Guns

Nowadays in movies and TV, you mostly see Glocks, and often times SIGs and HKs. I don't really have anything wrong with these guns (I think Glocks are a bit ugly looking, but they are reliable), but in movies, there has been a lack of "Classic guns", or rather, classic guns having a big role in the movie, not like being used by some extra or being used by a main character, but not really being synonymous with a character. We all remember "Lethal Weapon". The Beretta 92FS was synonymous with Det. Martin Riggs. Now it has become the most popular choice of movie extras. And I don't even remember the last time I saw a Browning Hi-Power being used by a main character.

1911's and revolvers are still present, somewhat. Sometimes you'll get a movie like "Sin City" that really knows how to show off the 1911. But, even so, their presence in movies is declining. And sometimes a really great gun based on a classic design isn't used often. For instance, I can't believe I barely see S&W 686P. That is a great gun, but it isn't very much valued in the movie community.

Now, I understand that the reason these guns aren't in movies as much is because Glocks, SIGs and HKs are more modern design. But even so, nowadays, these guns don't usually become characters of their own. It's just a tool that a main character uses to shoot people. The classics I've mentioned above have previously become famous for being movie characters and not just "tools of the trade" of a character, if that makes sense.

Anyway, I just figured I'd express my opinion.
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Old 11-13-2009, 05:11 AM
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It's really out with the old, in with the new with movies. Another thing really common is black synthetic furniture, no more wood stocks. Unless it's a period piece, you won't see much classics. It's a shame really, probably just collecting dust in an armory. The only time I see a revolver used by a main character, is by the sheriff or deputy of a small town.
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Old 11-13-2009, 06:27 AM
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Yeah, exactly. And you don't see to many of those movies anymore, unless they're movies that take place in the past (like "No Country For Old Men"). I think a good example of the black synthetic vs wood is "Miami Vice". In Seasons 1 and 2, the Mossbergs that the Vice cops carried were wood, but toward the end of Season 2 and on, they became black synthetic. This was the start of that trend it would seem.
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Old 11-13-2009, 03:57 PM
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Part of the reason why the Beretta 92F became such a "character" in movies is because of its inherent qualities - namely, its distinctive shape and its 15-shot magazine. When the 92F started appearing in movies in the mid- to late-80s, "Wonder Nines" were a new trend on the handgun market (not exactly revolutionary, but it seemed that way), so that by itself is what helped make the Beretta into a character of its own. Problem is, there haven't really been any equally major trends in the handgun market since then, so there isn't necessarily any pistol that would have the same sort of appeal. Personally, I keep waiting for the FN Five-Seven to take that role, but so far it hasn't (Steve has explained to us that this is because the Five-Seven is difficult to convert to blank-fire). But nonetheless, the Five-Seven is the only pistol on the handgun market right now which represents a concept as novel for today as the 92F represented for the 1980s.

So that's the big part of the problem...there just aren't many pistols out there which seem as state-of-the art AND sexy as the Beretta 92F did 20 years ago. Remember when Riggs said, "9mm Beretta...15 in the clip, one up the pipe"? In 1987, most American cops were still carrying 6-shot revolvers, so that by itself made his gun sound extra special. If you had a character in a movie today, what could he say about his pistol that would make it seem unique and distinctive?

-".40-caliber Glock...15 in the clip, one up the pipe." Problem is, every cop in the U.S. today carries the same gun, with the same qualities.

-What about, ".45-caliber HK45, 10 in the clip, one up the pipe." Again, nothing sounds special about that.

You see my point? What would the main character say about the gun that would make it seem as cool (to laymen) as the Beretta sounded in 1987? Well, again..."FN Five-Seven...20 shots of 5.7x28mm, the new cartridge capable of penetrating vests." (and yes, I know this isn't exactly true, but we all know that's how Hollywood would portray it) Again, so far, the Five-Seven hasn't had many takers in Hollywood yet, though maybe some day this will change.

Also, contrary to what you said, 1911s are clearly not a declining presence in movies. If anything, they're actually experiencing something of a revival lately. Look at TV shows like "The Unit" which features the latest Kimber 1911 derivatives as the lead actors' sidearms. Not to mention that Keanu Reeves carried a custom 1911 in "Street Kings", and Angelina Jolie heavily used the Safari Arms Matchmaker in "Wanted". If anything, it seems to me that the new 1911s might be starting to fill the void that was left by the Beretta 92F, though there isn't really one specific make or model that's caught the attention of filmmakers.

Last edited by MT2008; 11-13-2009 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 11-13-2009, 04:12 PM
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I want to see a thug pull out a hi-point instead of a beretta 92fs. Or a lorcin or some crap. Mix in a little realism.
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Old 11-13-2009, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MT2008 View Post
So that's the big part of the problem...there just aren't many pistols out there which seem as state-of-the art AND sexy as the Beretta 92F did 20 years ago. Remember when Riggs said, "9mm Beretta...15 in the clip, one up the pipe"? In 1987, most American cops were still carrying 6-shot revolvers, so that by itself made his gun sound extra special. If you had a character in a movie today, what could he say about his pistol that would make it seem unique and distinctive?

Also, contrary to what you said, 1911s are clearly not a declining presence in movies. If anything, they're actually experiencing something of a revival lately. Look at TV shows like "The Unit" which features the latest Kimber 1911 derivatives as the lead actors' sidearms. Not to mention that Keanu Reeves carried a custom 1911 in "Street Kings", and Angelina Jolie heavily used the Safari Arms Matchmaker in "Wanted". If anything, it seems to me that the new 1911s might be starting to fill the void that was left by the Beretta 92F, though there isn't really one specific make or model that's caught the attention of filmmakers.
In Lethal Weapon Murtaugh actually said "15 in the mag", not clip. Which is surprising since the overused and incorrect term is clip. While there was the Wonder Nines of the '80's Beretta, Glock. The Hi-Power is a 13 shot pistol it came out in 1935. I consider it the first Wonder Nine. It's always overlooked. But like you said the Wonder Nines weren't all that revolutionary as they were portrayed in the '80's.

While the 1911 still has usage in new films, they are all almost always custom. No bone stock GI models.

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Originally Posted by k9870 View Post
I want to see a thug pull out a hi-point instead of a beretta 92fs. Or a lorcin or some crap. Mix in a little realism.
I was watching an episode of The Shield and a Mexican thug pulls a chrome Lorcin on Mackey. Surprised the hell out of me.

Last edited by predator20; 11-13-2009 at 05:05 PM.
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Old 11-13-2009, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by predator20 View Post
In Lethal Weapon Murtaugh actually said "15 in the mag", not clip. Which is surprising since the overused and incorrect term is clip.
Ah, good call. Well, that's what I get for not taking 2 seconds to look it up on IMDB.

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Originally Posted by predator20 View Post
While there was the Wonder Nines of the '80's Beretta, Glock. The Hi-Power is a 13 shot pistol it came out in 1935. I consider it the first Wonder Nine. It's always overlooked. But like you said the Wonder Nines weren't all that revolutionary as they were portrayed in the '80's.
Exactly, and I have always wondered why it took so long for Wonder Nines to catch on. But that's how it was in the 1980s. Before the Beretta 92F, most people who thought of handguns had revolvers in mind. So the 92F seemed like something special and innovative even though it was really just old re-packaged as new.

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While the 1911 still has usage in new films, they are all almost always custom. No bone stock GI models.
There are plenty of pretty bare-bones models. Especially in Seagal movies. Anyway, that is to be expected since Picatinny rails, compensators, and other such features are the new trends of the handgun market nowadays. But the 1911 as a platform is as unlikely to lose popularity in movies as in real life.

Last edited by MT2008; 11-13-2009 at 07:21 PM.
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Old 11-13-2009, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MT2008 View Post
Ah, good call. Well, that's what I get for not taking 2 seconds to look it up on IMDB.
Yeah the Hi-Powers big moment got stuck with clip. Gun Clerk: "That's a 14 shot clip. You expecting an army?" Serpico: "No, just a division."


Quote:
Originally Posted by MT2008 View Post
Exactly, and I have always wondered why it took so long for Wonder Nines to catch on. But that's how it was in the 1980s. Before the Beretta 92F, most people who thought of handguns had revolvers in mind. So the 92F seemed like something special and innovative even though it was really just old re-packaged as new.
It really was old repackaged as new. The original 92 came out in '76, I think it was. It was based off the M1951. I think the military adopting it, gave its popularity.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MT2008 View Post
There are plenty of pretty bare-bones models. Especially in Seagal movies. Anyway, that is to be expected since Picatinny rails, compensators, and other such features are the new trends of the handgun market nowadays. But the 1911 as a platform is as unlikely to lose popularity in movies as in real life.
You still watch Seagal films? I hadn't watched a new one in 10 years. Same goes for Van-Damme too.
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  #9  
Old 11-13-2009, 09:07 PM
Jcordell Jcordell is offline
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When they were filing the remake of Dawn of the Dead the directer (Zack Snyder) supposedly told the armorer that he wanted his characters to have firearms that average folks were likely to have. So all the fancy semi-autos and H&K smgs went away and in came the S&W Model 28. Model 10/13 and the Model 66 snubbie. Only Ving Rhames has a Remington 870 with a synthetic stock and flashlight and the street hood as the Beretta 92.

I liked that.

One of the reasons why I like the "old" cop movies from the sixties and seventies is the heavy presence of revolvers, shotguns etc. In some of the movies like Magnum Force the actors are using models that were getting old by the time the movie was filmed.

The old shows like Wanted: Dead or ALive and Paladin: Have Gun will Travel had firearms that were part of the characters. Of course Inspector Callahan with his Model 29 and even Quigly with his Sharps repeater.

In my opinion the movies (and television) has lost a little zip that the older productions had. It all black plastic and synthetic nowdays.

Oh well.
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Old 11-14-2009, 04:45 PM
ShootingJames ShootingJames is offline
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Some of the issues for armorers is ease of use and reliability. Glocks and Berettas in particular are easy to convert to blank fire, and they do so very reliably. They can take a beating and keep firing.

Try getting a Lorcin to fire real bullets reliably. It won't. I owned one. They make a very nice paperweight. Converting it to blank fire may be putting an actors life in jeopardy!

They didn't have Glocks in the 70's, or you'd of seen them in every film back then too.

Politics is also a factor today. They don't make the guns "characters" because they don't want that kind of attention on the film. They don't want the guns to be the focus in any way shape or form. More than likely the producers and the director are anti-gun anyway.

And many movies have characters with illegally obtained guns using the guns to perform illegal and immoral acts. That matters. You also see characters using the guns in a blatantly unsafe fashion. Lethal Weapon 4 for instance. They point loaded guns at each other jokingly every 10 seconds. This has become our "gun culture".

I think the last time I saw a prominent Hi-power in a movie was The Matrix. Though didn't they have some in the newest Mummy flick?

TV shows these days use a lot of non-guns. NCIS: LA and Sons of Anarchy use them all the time. And TV is all about cop shows, and cops use Glocks, and Sigs. The occasional 1911 (Numb3rs) or out of place Walther (Walker Texas Ranger) always make me wonder how they got there in the first place.

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