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Old 02-22-2013, 01:43 AM
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Rockwolf66 Rockwolf66 is offline
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Default Firearms sales in Canada

I've been doing a bit of research about what is avalable firearms wise in Canada.

Suprisingly enough 10.5" barreled Norinco M4geries were readily avalable. I'm not sure but it seems that when Firearms sales in the US have spiked there has been alot of the more social firearms dissapearing from Canadia gun shops as well.

While I can see Daniels Defence M4s not being Avalable... Those aformentioned Norincos are out of stock too. Unfortunatly when i try to find out the actual sales rate to see if it's just a side effect of US firearms buying or if Canadians are stocking up too I run into a snag. I can't find any information on Canadas Firearms Sales Rate anywhere. I would like to know how American Buying habbits are affecting our northern Neighbor.
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:17 PM
Nyles Nyles is offline
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It's a side effect of US buying. Ultimately most Canadian guns originate in the US, so while stores and distributors are well stocked at the moment as soon as they run out of what they have on hand at the moment things will get bad up here too. We're already out of 9mm pistols where I work and running low on small pistol and small rifle primers, and what I've been hearing from suppliers is that it's going to get worse before it gets better.

The exception to this will be stuff thats not sold in the US, like Norinco. But if it gets to the point where that's all that's available, it'll become hard to get by default.
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:47 PM
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Thanks Nyles,

Since I write fiction for fun, play Roleplaying games and Debate with terminally stupid progressives I do alot of research. With Canada it's interesting that you guys don't have laws on barrel lenght and just overall lenght.

Then again the Stupidity of ones own laws I have witnessed is scary. Case in point the following.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Progressive
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockwolf66

So when we have Leftist Politicians and activists saying that they want to ban law abiding Civilians the use of arms for nearly half a century we are the delusional ones? We have mountains of Evidence that says otherwise. Just keep pokeing that bear with the pointy stick. Looking at Canada they admit that firearms registration has been a collosal waste of time and money. In Australia their bun bans in the wake of Port Arthur has had no affect on crime, in fact some catigories of crime that had been dropping started to raise again after the ban. With England since Gun control didn't help with Crime they have turned to Knife control. We in the United States who are for the preservation of individual rights have watched what has happened in other countires and have listened to what the stated intent of our home grown leftists are. The intent is to take our individual freedoms and give us neither safety nore security.
Whooah there cowboy. Please don't include Canada in your rant if you can't do it without context or complete information.
Canada's "Long Gun" Registry (yes, that's what they called it) was set up to track (but not ban) long guns....meaning hunting rifles. And yes, it is a waste of time. It's a waste of time (and not a victory for your point of view) because all the other stuff is banned already. Pop Quiz: What's the most common firearm used while committing a crime in the United States? A .38 Special. Banned. Handguns? Banned. "Assault Weapons (whatever those are)? Banned. Extended magazines, armour piercing rounds and military grade hardware? Banned, Banned, Banned. The long and short of it is that for the most part, Canada's gun laws tend to get rid of the hardware that's part of the problem while keeping the "pioneering sportsman" mythos that a lot of people like to put out there to justify the right to bear arms. Do people still get shot in Canada? On occasion. This is lower than "one every x minutes" or whatever the current American rate is. Canada is safer.

Now the other countries you listed may very well be lawless societies hanging over the precipice of chaos without the noble everyman packing heat at his hip to keep it in check. But not Canada my friend. North lies an example that works if fully committed to and not merely half-assed to appeal to most.
My point is that I have been loosely keeping track of firearms laws and developments internationally and With Canada I was seeing retailers stocking things that are federally restricted for Americans just three months ago. Now all of those rifles are "Out of Stock". I was wondering the root causes.
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Old 02-26-2013, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Rockwolf66 View Post
My point is that I have been loosely keeping track of firearms laws and developments internationally and With Canada I was seeing retailers stocking things that are federally restricted for Americans just three months ago. Now all of those rifles are "Out of Stock". I was wondering the root causes.
Whoa there little doggie. What firearms are federally restricted in the U.S. that is available over the counter in Canada? Please elaborate. I know we don't import anything Norinco because they were caught imported full auto AKs in the 2000s purportedly to sell to gangs and US Customs nailed them. But what else? You have me intrigued.
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Old 02-26-2013, 05:27 AM
Nyles Nyles is offline
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Well, we actually DO have laws with regard to barrel length. They're just alot more complicated than yours. Our laws in general are complicated, actually.

We have firearms liscensing in Canada, to own or purchase a firearm or ammunition you need a PAL, a Possession and Acquisition Liscense. There is such a thing as a Possession Only Liscense, which allowed you to keep the firearms you owned before the current laws came into effect, but not buy new ones. They've been trying to phase out the POL for years, but there's still some out there. There are 4 basic classes of firearm in Canada, Non-Restricted, Restricted, Prohibited and Antique. There used to be a registry for all firearms, but that was repealed last year so now only Restricted and Prohibited guns are registered.

Non-Restricted firearms are anything that doesn't fall into the other classes, which means most basic manually operated rifles and shotguns, and most hunting semi-autos. You just need the basic PAL for them. One thing you might find interesting is that any air rifle over 500 FPS or post-1898 muzzle-loader is a non-restricted firearm over here. Non resticted guns have to be stored and transported unloaded, either in a locked container OR with a trigger lock.

Restricted firearms are large handguns, AR-15s (specifically named in the law), manually operated centerfires which can be fired when their overall length is under 26", and semi-auto centerfires with a barrel under 19". This last one was written specifically to make the M1 Carbine restricted as they were the weapon of choice for the Hell's Angels during the Montreal biker wars in the 90s. Restricted guns can only be shot at a range, and require an ATT (Authorisation To Transport) when you want to take them out of the house. Most provinces will give you a long term ATT to take them from your house to the range and back, with a one-time ATT to move it anywhere else. They have to be stored unloaded, in a locked container, AND trigger locked. These require a restricted class PAL, which anyone who passes the background check can get.

Prohibited is complicated. There are actually 6 classes of Prohibited firearm. The largest one is handguns with a barrel under 4.2" or in .25 or .32 caliber. Also full autos, full autos converted to semi-autos, certain guns designated as Prohibited (AKs, FALs, basically anything available in 1995 that looked scary), sawed off rifles or shotguns with an overall length under 26" or barrel length under 19" (but if they were manufactured that way by the factory they're restricted and non-restricted, respectively.... I don't know why). You can only own a Prohibited firearm if you've had once since that class of firearm was prohibited (1978 for FA, 1997 for everything else). Prohibs cannot be imported. ATTs are only issued to shoot Prohibited handguns, Prohibited long guns cannot be shot. Storage and transport is as per Restricted.

Antiques are exempt from liscensing and registration (including antique handguns), but have to be stored as if they were non-restricted firearms. Antique rifles are any rimfire other than .22 or single-shot centerfire larger that .32 caliber, made before 1898. Antique handguns are any ( including short-barrelled and .32s) made before 1898 that don't shoot a commonly commercially available caliber. Antique shotguns are anything pre-1898 that's not centerfire. Any flintlock rifle or shotgun, regardless of age, is an antique, but post 1898 flintlock handguns are still Restricted.

Supressors are completely illegal. Armor piercing ammo is illegal. Carrying a handgun is illegal (well, for all intents and purposes anyways). Handguns have a maximum magazine capacity of 10 rounds. Centerfire semi-auto rifles and shotguns have a maximum magazine capacity of 5 rounds. Higher capacity magazines have to be pinned so they comply - there are very limited exceptions to this, for rifles impossible to pin (M1 Garand) or for very rare historically significant magazines (Luger snail drum). No magazine capacity restriction on rimfire rifles or manually operated centerfires. Unlike the US, no upper limit on caliber - I have a 14.5mm anti-tank rifle, and there are even 20mms out there, and they're just Non-Restricted Firearms. We also don't have that only shipping between FFLs foolishness - firearms can be shipped from individual to individual, no problem. Canada Post doesn't accept ammo so it has to be couriered, but as long as they're sent signature required, no issue with guns.

That's the Cliffe's Notes version. If anyone is still interested, I'm alot more well-versed in ours laws than most and can probably answer any questions you can think to ask.

Last edited by Nyles; 02-26-2013 at 05:53 AM.
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Old 02-26-2013, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by MoviePropMaster2008 View Post
Whoa there little doggie. What firearms are federally restricted in the U.S. that is available over the counter in Canada? Please elaborate. I know we don't import anything Norinco because they were caught imported full auto AKs in the 2000s purportedly to sell to gangs and US Customs nailed them. But what else? You have me intrigued.
As Nyles Pointed out you can get Rifles and Shotguns with barrels that are as low as Eight and a half inches or rifles with Seven and a half inches

I know some of it is restricted but other firearms that would fall under the NFA isn't restricted. Basically there is stuff in Canada that falls under the NFA that the Canadians have somehow sensibly ruled to be an ordinary firearm.
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Old 02-26-2013, 05:49 AM
Nyles Nyles is offline
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In those examples the Grizzly is non-restricted (manually operated, overall length over 26") and the 858 is restricted (centerfire semi-auto, barrel under 19"). That said I sell 858s with 19" barrels at work that are non-restricted.
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Old 02-26-2013, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyles View Post
In those examples the Grizzly is non-restricted (manually operated, overall length over 26") and the 858 is restricted (centerfire semi-auto, barrel under 19"). That said I sell 858s with 19" barrels at work that are non-restricted.
Well in the U.S. it's 16" or less for rifles and 18" or less for shotguns, so a 19" barreled anything is legal in the US. I am very intrigued by the short barreled rifles and shotguns.

Like you said. We can get a ton of stuff you can't. But at least Canada had the sense to not freak out over barrel length in some instances. Like a 14" barrel on an M4 is far deadlier than a 16" barreled rifle. Fah!

But then I heard the Crossbow Pistols are banned in Canada. (is that true?) They aren't here, even in California.
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:15 AM
commando552 commando552 is offline
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Does anyone know the reason why the variants of the H&K SL8 that are sold in the US has a single stack only magazine well whilst the ones available in Canada and Europe are normal double stack? I haven't seen this done by any other manufacturer or rifles, it seems odd to me that it is just the SL8. Is this due to a US law, or an odd H&K choice.
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Old 02-26-2013, 04:21 PM
SPEMack618 SPEMack618 is offline
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So no provision to conceal carry at all?

How about open carry while hunting or hiking?

Anything similar to the Castle Law?
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