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Old 02-12-2012, 10:02 PM
SPEMack618 SPEMack618 is offline
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Default G-Men weapons

So....I got this idea for a shot story that I'm currently crafting the outline for.

1951. The NKVD, after realizing the USSR's foolish error in allowing the UN to pass a resolution allowing the use of UN forces in the ROK, is seriously trying to stem the support for the ROK by whatever means possible, including sabotage, assasination, and kidnapping.

Being that they are attempting this in North America, it falls to the G-Men under Hoover to stop them.

I'm thinking of having a plucky five man band assigned to the case of one specific NKVD hit squad, which of course culminates in a fire fight of epic proportions.

I'm thinking principle players will be the five feds, a local hick sheriff, and four State Police men.

Weapons I know I want used are Government Models in both .45 ACP and Super .38, Colt Detective Specials, S&W Heavy Dutys, Winchester '97s, Ithaca '37s, Winchester '07s, and maybe a BAR and M-1928A1 or two.

Any thoughts?
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Old 02-13-2012, 01:35 AM
Mandolin Mandolin is offline
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Would you consider the M-1 Garand or the M1/M1A1/M2 Carbine? Anyone going to bring a scoped Springfield M1903?

FBI: 1x BAR/Colt Monitor (or, if you want to be realy crazy, an AN/M2 in Stinger configuration), 2 Winchester 1907s, 1 M-1928A1, and 2x Ithaca 37s, one of which is sawnoff and carried by a G-man with a Winchester '07. M1911s all round, with Detetective Specials as backup.

Sheriff: Winchester '97, possibly a '94 as well. S&W Model 10/15/27.

State Police: 2x M-1928A1s, 1x Ithaca 37, 1x Winchester '07. Possibly a Lewis gun that they had sitting in the armoury from Prohibition-era shootouts with moonshiners(What state, anyway?) if you want real firepower. 1-2 M1911s, 2-3 S&W Model 10/15/27.

NKVD: How unobtrusive do they want to be? How many of them? Do they use shotguns?
Blatant(4 guys): 2x PPSh-41s, 1x Auto-5/ Winchester '97/M1 carbine, 1x SVT-40 scoped
If 6-8 guys, add 2 more PPSh-41s, a Mosin-Nagant 91/38 carbine, and a BAR/Lewis gun/MG34(Lend-Lease stuff)

Semi-blatant(4 guys) 2x PPS-43, 1x shotgun/M1 carbine, 1x M-1C/D Garand
For 6-8 guys, add 1x BAR/Lewis, 3x M1 Carbines or Mosin-Nagant M91/38

Unobtrusive(4 guys): 2x M1928A1s, 1x shotgun, 1x M-1C/D Garand
For 6-8 guys, add 1x M-1928A1, 2x M1A1 (or M2 in M1A1 stocks) Carbines, 1x sawn-off BAR.
As for sidearms, either M1911A1s (Lend-Lease), Walther PP/PPKs, or TT-33s.
Depending on how covert they are, throw in M1/M9 Bazookas, Panzerfausts or, if avalible, RPG-2s.

Do I think too much?
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Old 02-13-2012, 02:41 AM
Yournamehere Yournamehere is offline
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I'd scratch any modern S&W revolver (meaning anything with a number designation or anything not in .38 Special of .45 ACP). They may have been around, but it was at their inception, and an old .38 would have been far more likely to have been used, and a Colt more likely than that. S&W didn't start dominating the market until a while after the Cold War era began, but before that it was relatively balanced between S&W and Colt, if Colt wasn't the winner in the revolver market. If you want names, Colt Official Police and S&W M&P. According to a an archived High Road post, those were the standard issue of the FBI at the time.

I don't know how long any of the long guns you mentioned were issue, like the Ithaca 37, Winchester 1897 or BAR, or remained FBI issue past the prohibition era, the 1907 or the particular Thompson variant. Personally I'd be modest and leave it at two Thompsons, two period rifles of some sort, manually operated or autoloading, and then a shotgun of some sort, I'd say Winchester 1912, a bit more modern and prolific than the often seen 1897. The Ithaca 37 is more of a late 1950's - 1980's shotgun., and that's not including the specific run of the riot variants which may be dated later, though I'm going on what I've seen in various gun auctions and portrayal in media to be honest.

Just a word of advice too, when I pick firearms for something, I don't let something that was just introduced ever make the cut (for example, a Model 19 in 1957). Yes, it was apparently around at the time, but the transition from one gun to another usually takes some time, and generally, people like to fall back on what they know works, in the case of the 1950's, a Colt Government or a .38 revolver, and not a new flashy .357 Magnum. Today's fascination with more powerful calibers tend to lead people to forget that back in the day, it was what had worked and not what was the newest thing on the block that servicemen tended to appreciate.
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Old 02-13-2012, 03:27 AM
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You could have one of them be a "gun guy" who gets the newest and flashiest thing just to interestingly write about it then have some colts passed around the rest, maybe a take home 1911 with a remington rand/ithaca/union switch or somethin more obscure.
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Old 02-13-2012, 05:50 AM
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My logic is that if it existed at that time period, and if it is possible to get it, it should be in it.
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Old 02-13-2012, 02:32 PM
Mandolin Mandolin is offline
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On second thought, how about a suppressed Sten for the NKVD? Could the FBI get a Johnson M1941 LMG or are those too rare? The Winchester 1912 shotgun is also a possablility. How about a second sheriff's deputy who either: 1. is a WW2 vet with an M-1 Garand or M1A1 carbine 2. is a motorcyle officer and carries a .38 Super 1911 converted to a machine pistol(like in Public Enemies) due to his being a long ways from backup. The 1911 is carried in a modified shoulder holster and he also has a small revolver and a shotgun/carbine.

I ignored all Russian machineguns in my original post, as they use too much hard-to find ammo. The SVT-40, M91/38, PPSh41/PPS-43 all use Russian ammunition, but either don't use much (the rifles) or the ammo is small and light(the SMGs).

As Yournamehere pointed out the Winchester '07 may be out of FBI service, so you could replace it with M1 Carbines. As for the M1928A1 and BAR, there isn't a replacement, so keep them. The Ithaca 37 came out in 1937, so it's fine. According the the Smith and Wesson page on th main site, the Model 10/15/27 are the only revolvers in .38 or bigger in the time period.
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Old 02-13-2012, 03:44 PM
SPEMack618 SPEMack618 is offline
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The Heavy Duty, in .38/44 was out at the time. And I think my local Sheriff will probably pack one of those. And he will probably have an Ithaca 37, but the Featherweight Field Gun.

I do like the idea of the Model 12 being used in lieu of the Model '97, the FBI guys will have those.

I think I'm going to relegate the Winchester '07 to the State Police, who will also carry Colt Police Positives.

Atleast one of the FBI Agents will cary a Super .38, the aforementioned gun guy. He will also probably carry the BAR. The other four Agents will have a mix of Thompsons and Model 12s, all carrying Government Models in .45 ACP with Colt Dick Specials liberally thrown around as BUGs.


Well, being this is before the CGA of '68 I think I'm going to have the NKVD order a variety of stuff through mail order. Any ideas?

And for pistols, either TT-33s or PPKs, which they could bring over there with them under thier coats.
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Old 02-13-2012, 03:54 PM
Mandolin Mandolin is offline
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How many NKVD?
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Old 02-13-2012, 03:56 PM
SPEMack618 SPEMack618 is offline
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Not sure yet. About six or so...maybe eight?
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Old 02-13-2012, 04:55 PM
Mandolin Mandolin is offline
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Well, being Russian, I'm seeing a mix of SMGs and bolt guns. So, a couple M1928A1/M1 Thompsons, various civilian bolt-guns, and possably a light machine gun, like a BAR or Lewis. OTOH, they might have experiance with and prefer M1 carbines, suppressed Sten guns, MP40s, and other Lend-Lease or captured weapons.
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