no accurate FPS games

[jdun]

Originally Posted by k9870

AR 15s have to be taken off the shoulder to clear a jam or charging handle whacks your face and the direct impigment system means it craps where it eats. Agreed, AKs suck. I prefer the ruger mini for close range, as a standard rifle stock is much more confortable. My CQB weapon of choice is my 870 express deer.

In an AR15 you don't need to take your rifle off your shoulder to clear a typical jam. I don't and people that have been train on the platform don't.

If you have a double feed or a malfunction that is harder to clear then you have to do remedial action then that need to be taken of the shoulder in some cases (like all rifles). Compare to a lot of rifles clearing an AR15 malfunction is pretty fast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6jXFbkNU6E

The Ruger mini 14 is crap. For a rifle that cost almost the same as an AR15 it can't hit the side of the barn from 50 yards. After some 30 odd years Ruger decided to produce Hi-Cap mag for the mini 14. Wonder why? No ones buys the mini 14, everybody went with the AR15.

If the DI is so bad then why does almost every Western Special Force use them instead of piston type rifle? The people that thinks that the AR15 is unreliable are game kiddies and internet commandos.

Here is an AR15 shooting at 860 yards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B9Nk...eature=related

I've seen AR15 competitor shooting AR15 with iron sight in less then ideal conditions at 600 yards targets without a problem. In fact 60% of their shots hit the X.

The SCAR is dead. Another future weapon program will start this coming November. It the main reason why Bushmaster is delaying the ACR.

[Phoenixent]

Originally Posted by jdun

The SCAR is dead. Another future weapon program will start this coming November. It the main reason why Bushmaster is delaying the ACR.

This is based on what?

[jdun]

Base on the military starting another future weapon program this coming November. Bushmaster is delaying production of the ACR because they want to know what is the requirements for the new completion.

If the SCAR is going to be adopted in the US military then why start another program? Here the thing about the military, even if your product past the testing it does not means that it will be adopted.

In order for a future rifle to replace the AR it needs to suppress the AR15 in every categories. That's not going to happen because all these weapons are repackage from old design that was developed 50+ years ago. The difference is new name and new material but the same soul.

[k9870]

Special forces like the SCAR last time I saw.

And the AR is not as dominant as you make it seem, the big reason is politicians not wanting to dish out money on guns. We could get better weapons, and even small improvements are good. We could replace all U.S. Service rifles for the cost of one stealth bomber. Why not?

Ars jsut don't do it for me. And minis cost about half of what an AR costs. I dont know where your seeing 1200 dollar mini 14s. And ever try the NRA model with 16 inch barrel? 2-3 inch 100 yard groups. Not a military rifle, but as a utility gun I like it. And they have a target model, guess what, MOA

The reason for high caps is bill ruger died and now we dont need to deal with his BS and the new ruger folks are making good decisions.

[jdun]

I don't think you understand how the AR15 works. It is the best weapon in the world. That's why most Western Special Force use it.

If the AR15 was bad then why it is the number one weapon of choice for contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan. Would these independent contractors that can use any weapon chose a weapon that most game kiddie think it is bad. Why would they risk their lives carrying a bad weapon? Because the AR15 isn't a bad weapon, in fact it is the best platform in the market.

Every time I read that the AR15 is unreliable and whatever, the first thing that comes to my mind is game kiddie.

Every time I read that this XXX weapon is going to be replace the AR15, the first thing that comes to my mind is game kiddie.

Show me pictures or videos where US Special Force use the SCAR in combat. The SCAR is for sell to civilians. If the SCAR is being use by the US military you would expect civilians sells would not be on the top of the list. There will be no civilians version for years just like there wasn't when the AR15 first came out.

You can get an AR15 for the same price as a Ruger mini 14. It's not my opinion it a fact. A typical AR runs around $800. The price is higher right now because of high demand and low supplies. AR15 manufactures can't keep up with demand even when the factories are running 20 hour shift. There is around a 6 months waiting period.

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/SearchResults.asp

[Gunmaster45]

I'd rather have an AR-15 than my dad's Ruger Ranch Rifle, but with a pre-ban 40 round magazine, accuracy isn't an issue a long range. But I've shot targets with the newer stainless steel Ruger Mini-14, and I fired 20 rounds as fast as I could fire on a target at 40 yards and got them all within about 2", which is pretty good.

But I feel very comfortable with the AR-15 platform, I think it is very ergonomic and easy to use, and is very accurate. While I wouldn't call it the best rifle in the world, it is a proven weapon that many prefer.

Now if .223/5.56 wasn't so god damned loud! I'm amazed anyone who's ever used one in combat can still here. You never feel compelled to plink with an AR, unless you want people a few miles away to know.

[k9870]

The AR-15 is not the greatest wepon in the world, it's jsut used by the military, looks cool and gets the job done. Any attempts to surpass it are shut down by the pro-ar crowd and everyone with one believes it to be the ultimate gun in its class. Everyone gets biased to their guns. Look at pistols. Some say glock, some say 1911, neither will admit anything is better.

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by k9870

The AR-15 is not the greatest wepon in the world, it's jsut used by the military, looks cool and gets the job done. Any attempts to surpass it are shut down by the pro-ar crowd and everyone with one believes it to be the ultimate gun in its class. Everyone gets biased to their guns. Look at pistols. Some say glock, some say 1911, neither will admit anything is better.

But I do think Jdun has raised a good point...if the AR-15 is so overrated, why is that anyone who has a choice in what they use (meaning SF personnel) prefer them? Don't you think it's kind of odd that the Aussies adopted the Steyr AUG, for instance, but their SF all use M4s?

[Phoenixent]

Originally Posted by jdun

Base on the military starting another future weapon program this coming November. Bushmaster is delaying production of the ACR because they want to know what is the requirements for the new completion.

If the SCAR is going to be adopted in the US military then why start another program? Here the thing about the military, even if your product past the testing it does not means that it will be adopted.

In order for a future rifle to replace the AR it needs to suppress the AR15 in every categories. That's not going to happen because all these weapons are repackage from old design that was developed 50+ years ago. The difference is new name and new material but the same soul.

I did not say the SCAR-L/MK16 Mod 0 was being adopted by the US Military. I said The SCAR system is coming on line right now for Special Ops and would be no problem to go system wide with it. FN has produced over 100,000 SCAR-L/MK16 Mod 0 Rifles to date for USSOCOM. The are competing for the Marine Corp IAR program at this time. So if this new ACR program coming up what weapons are going to compete and how do you know that the SCAR is not one of them? Also I would not count on Bushmaster to much they still have a big QA problem as the M4 in Orange County Sheriff Dept that came from Bushmaster are junk.

[Phoenixent]

Originally Posted by MT2008

But I do think Jdun has raised a good point...if the AR-15 is so overrated, why is that anyone who has a choice in what they use (meaning SF personnel) prefer them? Don't you think it's kind of odd that the Aussies adopted the Steyr AUG, for instance, but their SF all use M4s?

Not saying it's a bad system like all thing it has flaws but the weapon works for the right operation. I have been working on the AR15/M16 system for 30 years and worked the bugs out to make them work fine. Then someone comes and changes it like the size of the gas port for cyclic rate or chamber dimension to get more accuracy out it. Then those have to be corrected because it done not work correctly with those changes. HK took several years to build the 416 changing everything when Taiwan had the T65 in the 1970's which is a M16 with a piston gas system ala AR180.