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  #61  
Old 04-12-2009, 09:38 PM
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as for AKs, too many people base there gun knowlege on video games and tales of the gun on the history channel where they say aks dont jam. I picked up a norinco ak at my friendly local gunstore and don't even think it was meant for shoulder fire, it feels desighned to shoot from the armpit and the rear sight is halfway up the barrel.
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  #62  
Old 04-12-2009, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by k9870 View Post
as for AKs, too many people base there gun knowlege on video games and tales of the gun on the history channel where they say aks dont jam. I picked up a norinco ak at my friendly local gunstore and don't even think it was meant for shoulder fire, it feels desighned to shoot from the armpit and the rear sight is halfway up the barrel.
I'm a fan of the AK platform, but it has awful ergonomics. It was designed to be reliable, simple to operate and maintain, and easily mass-produced, with anything else being an afterthought.

I'd take an AR over an AK any day.

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I believe intermediate cartridges are the way to go, 308 recoils too ahrd for close range full auto, 556 just can't make the long shots. 6.5/6.8 cartridges are looking promising.
What do you mean by "long shots"?
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  #63  
Old 04-13-2009, 12:41 AM
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3,4,5,600 yards. I know 223 can make it out that far, under ideal conditions, as it is easily affected by wind or elevation more than a .308. It also has relatively poor penetration through cover, LEOs have had windshields stop their .223 ammunition. I wish back in the thirties we'd gone with .276 petersen, as we would probably be using an intermediate round today.
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  #64  
Old 04-13-2009, 01:05 AM
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Originally Posted by k9870 View Post
3,4,5,600 yards. I know 223 can make it out that far, under ideal conditions, as it is easily affected by wind or elevation more than a .308. It also has relatively poor penetration through cover, LEOs have had windshields stop their .223 ammunition. I wish back in the thirties we'd gone with .276 petersen, as we would probably be using an intermediate round today.
You can thank MacArthur for the change the caliber of the Garand to .30-06 but it was great vision doing it as it would have been one more caliber in use during World War II. Just think about it the M1 Garand, BAR, Browning 1919, Browning AN/M2, and 1903A4 Springfield Sniper Rifle. Also rear echelon weapons like the Browning 1917, 1903 Springfield, 1903A3 Springfield and 1917 Enfield Rifle. All those weapons would have to use a separate cartridge or be re-barreled. The same goes for the Remington 6.8 the only ones ever to use it in combat will be Special Op units as the military will not re-barrel their existing weapons or add a new caliber to frontline units. They are both good rounds just did not come at the right time.
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  #65  
Old 04-13-2009, 01:24 AM
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When is the right time to switch? With that logic well use .223 when lazer cannons are ripping us to shreds........
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  #66  
Old 04-13-2009, 04:10 AM
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When is the right time to switch? With that logic well use .223 when lazer cannons are ripping us to shreds........
When we go to a new Infantry weapon system wide. That time might me here faster than you think with every service testing the SCAR-L and SCAR-H. The SCAR-L is readily adaptable from 5.56 to 6.8 in about 3 minutes. The SCAR-H is in 7.62 NATO and is very controllable on full auto. I have checked out the SCAR-H and it is a beautiful weapon and is so robust that the Marine Corp could not destroy it. The SCAR system is coming on line right now for Special Ops and would be no problem to go system wide with it. I have my eyes on one in 7.62 NATO but they are not cheap.

As for Law Enforcement sales I think you will see then stick with 5.56 because of the city attorneys worrying about a round going through a car or wall and killing a innocent bystander. The was the reason SWAT teams went from 5.56 to 9mm and then back to 5.56mm the attorneys.
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  #67  
Old 04-13-2009, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k9870 View Post
I believe intermediate cartridges are the way to go, 308 recoils too ahrd for close range full auto, 556 just can't make the long shots. 6.5/6.8 cartridges are looking promising. The AR is over hyped, I have freinds who were told the m16 is the ultimate rifle all through basic and hate the thing. One was told an m4 with ACOG is a better DMR than an m21
Funny I have a buddy who owns a G3A3 and at 50 yards he can put two ten round bursts across a human torso target and at 100 yards( in which about 80% of recorded firefights happen) he can put three seven round bursts across three human torso sized targets. The only time he has had trouble with controling a 7.62X51mm NATO weapon is when he fires his HK-21E from the shoulder. In that case the weapon is question has been cronographed at 1,100 rounds per minute...ie, it makes a MAC-10 look tame.

As for the 5.56X45mm While I have relatives who used the Armalite in Oman and Yemen and found the range to be lacking due to the fact that in those area's you did get 1,000m plus engagement distances. My friends in Iraq and Afganistan have sucessfully engaged hostiles at 500m plus with M-16A2s with a Colt Factory 3.5 optic mounted on the carry handle. Basically the 5.56X45mm has had 50 or so years to grow up and work. Heck Jeff Cooper's Apollo Challange was done with a custom Rifle loaded with .223 Remington ammo.

If you are unfamiliar with that challange it was to fire twenty rounds in twenty seconds into a twenty inch circle at 1,000 yards. It was done a couple of years back by a custom AR-15 maker. He said he used the .223 as anything else that had the reach had too much recoil to place everything in that twenty inch circle.

As for the 6.5 Alexander round and the 6.8X43mm SPC. the 6.5mm is not being marketed as a tactical round and the 6.8X43 mm has even more long ranged wind drift than either the 7.62mm NATO or the 5.56mm NATO. That does mean something when one is fighting in mountains and deserts.
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  #68  
Old 04-13-2009, 05:38 PM
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I wouldn't mind seeing a SCAR adopted. Its modular enough for CQC, Standard and DMR uses.
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  #69  
Old 04-13-2009, 06:45 PM
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Some say the SCAR is too heavy and kinda rough to hold. I like the Magpull Masada or ACR as it's called now, it has similiar concepts.
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  #70  
Old 04-13-2009, 07:30 PM
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The ACR would be cool, as its produced about 30 minutes from where I live and would help the maine economy.
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