Heckler & Koch - overrated?

[Gunmaster45]

An excellent post. He really sums it up nicely. I might have to check out this forum when I have free time.

[Spartan198]

As someone who was the victim of an HK fanboy moderator on another forum which shall remain nameless (I was banned because a moderator didn't like my claiming preference for the LMT MRP over the HK416), I do think that HK is a bit overrated.
That's not to say they don't produce quality firearms, because they do...but so do Colt, LMT, LWRC, Bushmaster, Beretta, etc.. But I think a lot of their business practices are flawed (though I'm no businessman, so take that as you will), especially if the letter at the beginning of this thread was written by an HK employee.

Now, as far as video games go...

In Rainbow Six: Vegas, I always use the Barret REC7 or Mark 17 SCAR (heck, even the AK) over the XM8. And the only reason I use the Mark 23 is because of the lack of any other .45s.

In CoD4, I prefer an M4 or M16 (see above AK remark) over the G36C.

In MGS4, I always use the M4A1 (see above AK remark) over the XM8.

Seriously, the XM8 sucks. It melts in your hands and it offers nothing more than a bit cleaner of an OS than the M16/M4. The US military will never adopt it. Gamers need to get over it.

[k9870]

Hk hates you and thinks you suck. Every gun forum ive been on has had countless horror stories of hk customer service. They even shipped an sl-8 with no wrapping or padding. They could make hk94s again or semi auto anything in the u.s. factories but no, us lowly civilians dont deserve it. And hk416s are known to shoot 4moa, and not be nearly as accurate as m16 variants. The g36c is an awful weapon, it has an 8 inch barrel, 556 loses so much velocity there and range and hitting power is severely compromised. xm8s melted turing test trials.

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by k9870

They could make hk94s again or semi auto anything in the u.s. factories but no, us lowly civilians dont deserve it.

Actually, I'm not so sure I'd want them to make the HK94 again. Or at least, not the bastardized HK94 that was so "neutered" that H&K couldn't even give it a proper magazine release like that on the MP5, or a lower receiver set up to accept registered auto sears easily. The current crop of MP5 clones made in the U.S. may not be quite the same production quality, but in every other respect, I like them better than the HK94.

It's not too surprising to me that HK doesn't want to produce the HK90 series guns again, considering that the roller-locking guns in general are now being phased out of production. It wouldn't make sense for them to produce the HK91 and HK93 anymore, for instance, now that the G3 and HK33 (their full-auto relatives) are no longer produced for military/LE.

[k9870]

my bad, i meant hk91. apparently when they were first out they were cheaper than remington 700s, now they fetch 4k

not a fan of the 94 myself, just a typo. A semiauto g36 (not sl8, actual g36) would be a good ar alternative

[Gunmaster45]

I've heard G36s are very accurate actually. I spoke with a guy who served in a foreign military who uses them and he claimed the gas operation gives it the accuracy of a bolt action, which he can personally vouche for. I don't necessarily believe him, but he sounded sincere. I can assume he ment a full sized G36 and not the small barrel G36C.

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by Gunmaster45

I've heard G36s are very accurate actually. I spoke with a guy who served in a foreign military who uses them and he claimed the gas operation gives it the accuracy of a bolt action, which he can personally vouche for. I don't necessarily believe him, but he sounded sincere. I can assume he ment a full sized G36 and not the small barrel G36C.

Oh, I've heard great stuff about the G36's accuracy and reliability myself. The issue most people have with them is that they tend to overheat in the forearm (HK supposedly corrected this 10 years ago, but the complaints are still heard) and that the stock hinges tend to break. And of course, the melting can happen after very long periods of firing.

The thing is, though, the G36 is accurate because it basically uses the same operating system as the AR-18. There are quite a few guns built around the AR-18 tech that don't tend to overheat or break.

[Spartan198]

Originally Posted by MT2008

The thing is, though, the G36 is accurate because it basically uses the same operating system as the AR-18. There are quite a few guns built around the AR-18 tech that don't tend to overheat or break.

So in a way the G36 is just a refurnished AR18?

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by Spartan198

So in a way the G36 is just a refurnished AR18?

To quote that dude whom I quoted: "[b]esides the super space age (plastic) polymer that they use, what make a G36 so special and ahead of it's time ? Nothing! It uses Armalite / Stoner technology wrapped in plastic."

To be fair, though, at least the G36 has an ambidextrous charging handle. The one thing I've never liked about the AR-18 is its (right side-only) charging handle.

[jdun]

Originally Posted by MT2008

Also, out of curiosity, has anyone noticed what Larry claims about G3's recoil? That it's worse than that of other .308 battle rifles? I've fired an M1A and a DSA FAL (both owned by an uncle) and never noticed a difference between them and the PTR-91 I fired.

G3 does kick like a mule from my own experience.

HK Mk.23 and Desert Eagle.



The Norwegian are having a lot of trouble with their HK416. Their Special Force are sticking with the Canadian made AR15, ie C7.

The G36 use a modified AR-18 action. It's still an AR-18 action. The most accurate auto loading rifle is the AR15 DI.