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  #571  
Old 03-22-2014, 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by AdAstra2009 View Post
yum, I have a hard on for the older S&W automatics after I bought my 3913.
I'm tempted to ask to trade; I want a 3913 as a carry piece, but I wuvs my 459
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  #572  
Old 03-22-2014, 06:00 AM
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Made a post in here, forum says I made a post here, and the forum doesn't show me the friggin' post


I reckon it's trying to gaslight me


EDIT: Oh, NOW it shows up
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  #573  
Old 03-22-2014, 06:16 PM
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The 3913 is not dimensionally different enough from full size S&W autos to yield a real world difference in concealment or comfort of carry, unless you've determined that less than a half of an inch off the length and height will matter. How do you want to carry it?
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  #574  
Old 03-22-2014, 07:03 PM
commando552 commando552 is offline
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Originally Posted by Yournamehere View Post
The 3913 is not dimensionally different enough from full size S&W autos to yield a real world difference in concealment or comfort of carry, unless you've determined that less than a half of an inch off the length and height will matter. How do you want to carry it?
I would disagree with that, as not only does it have the shorter barrel it also has a smaller grip spur, no external hammer spur, narrower (single stack) and shorter grip, weighs about half a pound less and lower profile sights (compared to some other Smiths like the 459). All together, it is smaller, lighter and less snag-able than a full size S&W auto.
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  #575  
Old 03-22-2014, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by commando552 View Post
I would disagree with that, as not only does it have the shorter barrel it also has a smaller grip spur, no external hammer spur, narrower (single stack) and shorter grip, weighs about half a pound less and lower profile sights (compared to some other Smiths like the 459). All together, it is smaller, lighter and less snag-able than a full size S&W auto.
Hammer snag and the size of the sights are not concerns of physically carrying the gun, but drawing it. I suppose that the 3913 is more snag proof, but my point was that the size reductions of the gun are not enough to make any discernible difference for the actual carrying of the gun, or the comfort in carry.

Aside from the half inch length off the front and the grip, the other reductions are roughly 2/10ths of an inch all around, including the grip width. The window where the 3913 would be permissible where the full size gun would not be is very, very small, and if the full size gun doesn't work when the 3913 does, it's as simple as changing your wardrobe or getting a better holster.

I will concede that perhaps the narrowing of the grip combined with the narrowing of the slide stop may reduce the pressure of the slide stop digging into someone carrying the gun, but this does not address the concealment issues that will still be present. You have to be a very particular person with a very discriminatory body type to where 2/10ths of an inch matters with regard to a gun being seen or not.

I've just come to understand that the "compact" versions of guns are not much smaller than their full size counterparts, and will typically bear the same issues as their bigger brothers. In carrying my P228 off and on, and trying out new methods of carry, I see how it fails in a lot of the ways that its full size counterpart would. I still like it because it's cool, but I still think a P226 would conceal the the exact same level of adequacy, and give me 2 extra rounds.
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  #576  
Old 03-22-2014, 11:34 PM
commando552 commando552 is offline
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Originally Posted by Yournamehere View Post
Hammer snag and the size of the sights are not concerns of physically carrying the gun, but drawing it. I suppose that the 3913 is more snag proof, but my point was that the size reductions of the gun are not enough to make any discernible difference for the actual carrying of the gun, or the comfort in carry.

Aside from the half inch length off the front and the grip, the other reductions are roughly 2/10ths of an inch all around, including the grip width. The window where the 3913 would be permissible where the full size gun would not be is very, very small, and if the full size gun doesn't work when the 3913 does, it's as simple as changing your wardrobe or getting a better holster.

I will concede that perhaps the narrowing of the grip combined with the narrowing of the slide stop may reduce the pressure of the slide stop digging into someone carrying the gun, but this does not address the concealment issues that will still be present. You have to be a very particular person with a very discriminatory body type to where 2/10ths of an inch matters with regard to a gun being seen or not.
The thing is though, it isn't only the grip width that is different, it is a number of factors that combine together to make it a more comfortable and practical carry gun (for some people at least). Just roughly, by picking a 3913 over a 5906 for example you get a 40% reduction in weight (unloaded weight, functionally more when you consider it has less rounds in it), 20% reduction in grip width, and 10% reductions in the height and total length.

If you are going somewhere where you need a full size double stack then fine, but this is not the case the majority of the time. To me it seems that an 8 round mag will be more than sufficient for most self-defence situations, and carrying something over and above this is just wasted effort.
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  #577  
Old 03-23-2014, 02:34 AM
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I want a 3913 simply because I want a friggin' 3913. If I absolutely have to justify why I'd want to carry it over my 459, I guess it's because the 3913 would be easier to shoot, weighs less, has better sights, doesn't have some weird blue/black finish that I'm worried about rusting, and is more the size I prefer. I don't care if you want to carry around a full sized/"compact" handgun; I prefer something a little smaller that is not a revolver or a pocket pistol.
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  #578  
Old 03-24-2014, 02:18 AM
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Originally Posted by commando552 View Post
The thing is though, it isn't only the grip width that is different, it is a number of factors that combine together to make it a more comfortable and practical carry gun (for some people at least). Just roughly, by picking a 3913 over a 5906 for example you get a 40% reduction in weight (unloaded weight, functionally more when you consider it has less rounds in it), 20% reduction in grip width, and 10% reductions in the height and total length.

If you are going somewhere where you need a full size double stack then fine, but this is not the case the majority of the time. To me it seems that an 8 round mag will be more than sufficient for most self-defence situations, and carrying something over and above this is just wasted effort.
I won't argue the weight compared to a full steel 5906, but we're talking about another alloy framed gun, which is only 5 ounces more unloaded. When you add up the ammo, then yes, there's about a half a pound difference, but a proper holster/belt setup will compensate for that.

Using percentages doesn't change the fact that it's still 2/10ths of an inch off the grip, which won't realistically make a difference. Half an inch of muzzle at least coming down from a full size to a compact, won't make a difference in IWB or Appendix modes in my experience, unless you are really tall.

I will admit my bias with regard to double stack handguns, but it's not unfounded. More rounds is always better in a gunfight, big or small. I also don't like rationalizing carrying smaller guns with less rounds because statistics say that gunfights typically involve X rounds. For one, you don't want to give credence to GCAs who what to ban high capacity magazines on the grounds that SD shootings don't require multiple rounds, according to those statistics. More to the point, though, you don't keep an umbrella for a drizzle, you keep it for hard rain, because that's when you really need it, cause that's when you're gonna get wet. Likewise, you should carry the biggest, most combat effective weapon on your person that you can, because you don't know how many rounds it will take to end your altercation. In short, don't nerf preparedness without just cause (and statistics are not just cause).

There are good reasons to carry a smaller gun, though. I carry my snub more often than the SIG because the Florida heat makes me sweat like hell and keeps me from wearing proper cover garments. The snub is stainless and hides perfectly in my pocket. If it's between two automatics of roughly the same size though, I say pick a gun smaller than both, or go for the bigger one, cause there isn't any realistic concealment difference between the full size or the compact in my experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S&Wshooter View Post
I want a 3913 simply because I want a friggin' 3913. If I absolutely have to justify why I'd want to carry it over my 459, I guess it's because the 3913 would be easier to shoot, weighs less, has better sights, doesn't have some weird blue/black finish that I'm worried about rusting, and is more the size I prefer. I don't care if you want to carry around a full sized/"compact" handgun; I prefer something a little smaller that is not a revolver or a pocket pistol.
I'm just passing on my experience to help you make an objectively good decision for your carry gun. As to your new points, what you want is not what's actually good for you. You've made buying mistakes based on momentary wants, and so have I (on my 2nd Hi-Power, and about to sell a PPK I have shot once), and I'm here to tell you, it's better to really consider something. I don't see how the smaller gun would be easier to shoot either. The sights would be better, and the finish, that's the best reason for a switch for sure. I forgot you live in Texas, and the heat and your sweat would rot the bluing right off the 459 quick. Still, why not just get a 669/6906, stomach the extra ~6 ounces, the minute extra width, and have 4 extra rounds? That's what I'd do. After trying out a 659/5906 first.

And for the record, the 3913 is technically a "compact". It's single stack, but it's dimensions put it in the same bracket as my P228. You are, in fact, looking at carrying a compact gun, it;s just slimmer (which, in my experience, doesn't matter, as I've said). Do what you feel, though, but I have put in my two cents for what it's worth.
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  #579  
Old 03-25-2014, 08:47 PM
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I already got one o' them 6906's


Anyhow, I'm looking at getting a shotgun again because my father wants to trade me one for the Redhawk (which I only have because he needed a shotgun for a family friend and I was willing to trade the Winchester 1300 I had for it just to help him out). I don't really have any problem with trading again, since I reckon I'll get way more use out of a 12 gauge than a big-ass .44
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  #580  
Old 03-26-2014, 01:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yournamehere
about to sell a PPK I have shot once
Man, I tried the DA pull on the PPK a while back, and it was worse than the 459
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