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Old 01-04-2009, 07:13 PM
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Default Just a notation on MP5A4s and A5s

I've noticed quite a few movies where IMFDB members have mis-identified MP5 guns as MP5 A4s and A5s. (the ones with the 'fourth' 3-round burst selection). The vast majority of movie MP5 guns that don't have the S-E-F triggers are in fact, the old MP5A2 (full stock) and MP5A3 (telescoping stock) guns with the NAVY trigger groups installed. It's hard to find any original MP5A4s or A5s anywhere in movie armorer inventories, though there are some. Just be sure to check and double check that the plastic lower has four or three fire selector positions before declaring it to be an A4/A5.

Thanks.
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Old 01-04-2009, 07:31 PM
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This is a mistake that's mostly made due to airsoft. The Japanese airsoft gun manufacturer Tokyo Marui makes an MP5A2 and an MP5A3 with a Navy trigger group, but calls them the "MP5A4" and "MP5A5" respectively. Somehow, their mistake seems to have spread across the net, and now, everyone seems to think any MP5 with a Navy trigger group gets the "A4/A5/SD5/SD6" designation. When I used to post on airsoft message boards (years ago, now), I used to correct people on that nomenclature all the time.


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Originally Posted by MoviePropMaster2008 View Post
Just be sure to check and double check that the plastic lower has four or three fire selector positions before declaring it to be an A4/A5.

Thanks.
I always thought it's four positions only? The way I understand it, only MP5s with safe-semi-burst-auto lowers get the A4/A5/SD5/SD6 designation, while anything less than 4 positions is an A2/A3/SD2/SD3 (depending on stock or presence of integral suppressor).

Last edited by MT2008; 01-04-2009 at 07:37 PM.
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Old 01-04-2009, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MT2008 View Post
I always thought it's four positions only? The way I understand it, only MP5s with safe-semi-burst-auto lowers get the A4/A5/SD5/SD6 designation, while anything less than 4 positions is an A2/A3/SD2/SD3 (depending on stock or presence of integral suppressor).
That's what I meant, though I may have written it unclearly. I was admonishing members to check to see whether or not it was a three position (thus a Navy version of the A2 or A3, etc) or a four position (thus an A4/A5) before declaring it to be a certain type of gun. Sorry for the bad writing.

I did not know about the AIRSOFT error, but that makes sense. I don't know a lot about airsoft in general. I've seen the guns. Some of them are very impressive looking (I don't care about internals since the only airsofts used in movies are for fake gun stand ins).

What bugs me about airsoft is that so many of the high end (read expensive $$$) guns have a bunch of the details wrong. I've held up the real deal to an airsoft a bunch of times and those airsoft manufacturers make stupid little mistakes that they shouldn't. I figured if some kid is going to spend $400-$1000 on a high end airsoft, he should at least get an exacting copy of the real gun.
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Old 01-05-2009, 12:13 AM
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That's a different story with custom guns though, most Airsoft buyers that are willing to shell out the money to get a higher end airsoft will most likely customized it anyway into something else anyway or no one cares about the little details that are missing.
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Old 01-05-2009, 01:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoviePropMaster2008 View Post
That's what I meant, though I may have written it unclearly. I was admonishing members to check to see whether or not it was a three position (thus a Navy version of the A2 or A3, etc) or a four position (thus an A4/A5) before declaring it to be a certain type of gun. Sorry for the bad writing.
Actually, come to think of it, you did write it fairly clearly. But I'm kinda spacey sometimes, so I just didn't read it correctly. Looking back, I see what you meant.

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Originally Posted by MoviePropMaster2008 View Post
I did not know about the AIRSOFT error, but that makes sense. I don't know a lot about airsoft in general. I've seen the guns. Some of them are very impressive looking (I don't care about internals since the only airsofts used in movies are for fake gun stand ins).

What bugs me about airsoft is that so many of the high end (read expensive $$$) guns have a bunch of the details wrong. I've held up the real deal to an airsoft a bunch of times and those airsoft manufacturers make stupid little mistakes that they shouldn't. I figured if some kid is going to spend $400-$1000 on a high end airsoft, he should at least get an exacting copy of the real gun.
Not sure what details you mean, but keep in mind that because airsoft guns have to accommodate electric motors, gearboxes, batteries, etc., it's sometimes necessary for the manufacturer to alter the weapons in some way for all of the internals to fit. Most airsoft guns have magazines that are narrower than those of the "real steel" weapons, for instance, or slightly wider pistol grips/receivers. I recently handled a Real Sword (Chinese company) replica of a Type 56-1 that was very impressive - all metal and wood construction - but its pistol grip was noticeably wider than that of my own (real) Type 56, because the battery was stored in there.

The fact that the names aren't accurate is the main thing I have never understood, especially with Tokyo Marui. Their MP5s are just one of the many goofs they make with names. Here are some others I've noticed:

(1.) Their AKMSU is called the "AK Spetsnaz"
(2.) Their Steyr AUG A1 is called the "AUG Military"
(3.) Their AUG A2 is called the "AUG Special Receiver"
(4.) Their XM16E1 is called the "M16 Vietnam" or "M16 VN"
(5.) Their HK51 is called the "MC51"

What's so funny is when I see people referring to those guns by the names that Tokyo Marui has given them quite often, even on forums as reputable as the Firing Line and AR-15.com!
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Old 01-05-2009, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MT2008 View Post
Not sure what details you mean, but keep in mind that because airsoft guns have to accommodate electric motors, gearboxes, batteries, etc., it's sometimes necessary for the manufacturer to alter the weapons in some way for all of the internals to fit. Most airsoft guns have magazines that are narrower than those of the "real steel" weapons, for instance, or slightly wider pistol grips/receivers. I recently handled a Real Sword (Chinese company) replica of a Type 56-1 that was very impressive - all metal and wood construction - but its pistol grip was noticeably wider than that of my own (real) Type 56, because the battery was stored in there.

The fact that the names aren't accurate is the main thing I have never understood, especially with Tokyo Marui. Their MP5s are just one of the many goofs they make with names. Here are some others I've noticed:

(1.) Their AKMSU is called the "AK Spetsnaz"
(2.) Their Steyr AUG A1 is called the "AUG Military"
(3.) Their AUG A2 is called the "AUG Special Receiver"
(4.) Their XM16E1 is called the "M16 Vietnam" or "M16 VN"
(5.) Their HK51 is called the "MC51"

What's so funny is when I see people referring to those guns by the names that Tokyo Marui has given them quite often, even on forums as reputable as the Firing Line and AR-15.com!
I was referring to cosmetic details that aren't dictated by the internals, like the Classic Army (?) XM177E2 that's really good, until you notice that the idiots put a Heavy barrel on it. WTF? The XMs never had an A2 style heavy barrel. Or the Tokyo Marui SG1 being that weird light grey that doesn't exist in the real world. I've compared a bunch of their AKs to the real deal and alot of the cosmetic details are wrong. I went into an Airsoft store once and noticed that all of the (King?) FALs were wrong, i.e. inch pattern front ends with metric pattern back ends .... again ... WTF? I'll post a comparison pic one of these days.

As for the AUG special receiver, the A2 is the military version...BUT many of the special AUGs with rails imported into this country were called "Special Receiver" (and this was before the airsoft company made a copy of it), so that's not incorrect. AUG special receivers are very sought after since so few were imported into the U.S.

A bigger nomenclature change is calling the AK-104, "the SLR-104" (or something like that). I have some airsoft friends who only know the airsoft version of the gun, and when i mention the real name, they look at me like I spoke Greek or something.

Heck we on IMFDB keep calling the Norinco guns the Type 56, when the vast majority of them in the U.S. are actually marked AK-47 on the receivers (which was the export name for the US market).
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Old 01-05-2009, 01:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoviePropMaster2008 View Post
I was referring to cosmetic details that aren't dictated by the internals, like the Classic Army (?) XM177E2 that's really good, until you notice that the idiots put a Heavy barrel on it. WTF? The XMs never had an A2 style heavy barrel. Or the Tokyo Marui SG1 being that weird light grey that doesn't exist in the real world. I've compared a bunch of their AKs to the real deal and alot of the cosmetic details are wrong. I went into an Airsoft store once and noticed that all of the (King?) FALs were wrong, i.e. inch pattern front ends with metric pattern back ends .... again ... WTF? I'll post a comparison pic one of these days.

As for the AUG special receiver, the A2 is the military version...BUT many of the special AUGs with rails imported into this country were called "Special Receiver" (and this was before the airsoft company made a copy of it), so that's not incorrect. AUG special receivers are very sought after since so few were imported into the U.S.

A bigger nomenclature change is calling the AK-104, "the SLR-104" (or something like that). I have some airsoft friends who only know the airsoft version of the gun, and when i mention the real name, they look at me like I spoke Greek or something.
Ah, OK, I see what you mean. I totally forgot that the semi AUG with the railtop receiver was called the "Special Receiver" in the U.S. I've always just thought of that receiver style as the "A2" style.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoviePropMaster2008 View Post
Heck we on IMFDB keep calling the Norinco guns the Type 56, when the vast majority of them in the U.S. are actually marked AK-47 on the receivers (which was the export name for the US market).
Dunno about that. I know what you're saying (my own Chinese AK says "AK47S" on the receiver), but since a lot of the Hollywood Chinese AKs have been converted back to auto, and therefore to military Type 56 specs, it seems like it's pretty accurate to describe them as "Type 56s". I mean, a large percentage (the majority, surely) of the roller-locked H&K guns used in movies and TV shows are actually transferable conversions of civilian HK90 series guns, but we still call them G3s and HK33s and MP5s, no? Seems like it's the same case with the Chinese AKs.

Besides, we did mention in the Type 56 section that the semi guns exported to the U.S. were called "AKS47s" and "AK47s". Also, weren't some of the Norinco semi-auto guns called the "Type 56S"?

Last edited by MT2008; 01-05-2009 at 01:56 AM.
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Old 01-05-2009, 09:49 AM
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Airsoft wise, I really don't care so much about the fine details, cosmetic built of the guns don't really affect the performances of how the gun operates. To me, as long as they shoot fine, straight and well, it's good enough.
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Old 01-05-2009, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MT2008 View Post
=
Besides, we did mention in the Type 56 section that the semi guns exported to the U.S. were called "AKS47s" and "AK47s". Also, weren't some of the Norinco semi-auto guns called the "Type 56S"?
Yes, Norinco had a very diverse range of markings. I've seen AKs that are marked Type 56, Type 56 sporter, 56S, Sporter 386, AKS Sporter, Type 56S, 762 Sporter. Then there are the Polytech versions. BTW, I agreed with the rule that we call the weapon by what it's supposed to be or obviously is. The Chinese AKs have so many different Import names that to call it the Type 56 is the only way.
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