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  #11  
Old 07-13-2015, 09:56 PM
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Shoulder holsters can be useful but I wouldn't recommend them for the average joe. If you get a shoulder holster for serious use make sure its a good quality/expensive one and steer clear of UTG type nylon stuff (You should steer clear of nylon for holsters with the exception of some pocket holsters and ankle rigs). If a cop/detective carried his pistol in a shoulder holster he would likely get laughed at for looking too hollywood, Only people ive seen professionally use shoulder holsters for their sidearms are Army commisioned officers and Police Aviation officers.

If your getting a holster for concealed carry I'd recommend a leather or kydex Inside the Waistband (IWB) holster; And always make sure its made for that specific weapon or your not going to have good retention.
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Old 07-14-2015, 12:35 AM
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I've tried cross drawing a gun with a shoulder holster and it takes a bit of time to bring the gun at the ready. In a car, I've seen protective details do it if you are the driver and you stay in the car or also carry a primary subgun that hangs on your dominant side but for the average carrier, I think it's and old style holster.

Some people also have problems with holsters that have no "lock" on them, like either push a button or a switch or move a flap to get the gun out because they are afraid that in a struggle, the gun can drop and even with tough holsters like the Ravens other Kydex, there is a chance if you are in a fight, like if you are wrestling a guy and not minding your gun, it might get snagged out by something, but good kydex holsters have a pretty good retention even if you fall and tumble and I have seen guns do demos where they fall and tumble and the gun stays in.
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Old 07-14-2015, 02:43 AM
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Some people also have problems with holsters that have no "lock" on them, like either push a button or a switch or move a flap to get the gun out because they are afraid that in a struggle, the gun can drop and even with tough holsters like the Ravens other Kydex, there is a chance if you are in a fight, like if you are wrestling a guy and not minding your gun, it might get snagged out by something, but good kydex holsters have a pretty good retention even if you fall and tumble and I have seen guns do demos where they fall and tumble and the gun stays in.
I'm uncomfortable with holsters with no lock on them if the holster is owb/not concealed. If someone sneaks up on you (or if your waiting in a line or something) it shouldn't be a simple as pulling the gun out. IWB/concealed holsters are different and I consider the concealment to be the "lock".
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Old 07-14-2015, 11:53 AM
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A lot of classes will teach you how to defend yourself from getting your gun from being taken and it's about struggling against someone who is trying to take your gun. Though the purpose of concealed carry is concealment. If no one knows you are armed, they can't take your gun. That's the point of hiding the gun unless you want to open carry
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  #15  
Old 07-14-2015, 05:41 PM
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Though the purpose of concealed carry is concealment. If no one knows you are armed, they can't take your gun. That's the point of hiding the gun unless you want to open carry
Hence why I think open carry is stupid.
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  #16  
Old 07-14-2015, 07:13 PM
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Okay most of those were excellent points, probably would do better with IWB; my question is, how much in general does such a setup press into/put pressure on your hip? My right side is worse about it than my left, but I am still somewhat concerned

I'll tell you what, trying to figure out a decent way to carry and working it around a back injury is a bitch; I'd rather not have to end up pocket carrying or something but it that's the way it is, then whatever
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Old 07-14-2015, 10:36 PM
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When I started carrying I had to go from a 32 to a 34 to allow room for IWB carry (I started with a S&W M&P 40) so unless you already dress in loose pants your going to probably have to buy new pants. With proper fitting pants for a IWB holster it doesn't press hard and you'll forget your carrying the gun. Get a compact/subcompact gun (wouldn't recommend anything less than .380 for a primary carry gun) and you'll forget your even carrying.
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Old 07-15-2015, 02:56 AM
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You'd need to get different pants for an IWB holster. Even with a slim gun, adding the holster will out extra push into the pants and might not work or be comfortable, so you'd need to get a pants size larger and a good belt as well.

If you have some kind of injury, even pocket carry might be a problem depending on speed because if you've practiced, even reaching into a pocket for your gun will send your body into that flight or fight mode and you can tense up and if you have some kind of old hurt, it will hurt. So it's best to work with your injury because if you need to fight, it will add to your hurt.

Until your back gets better, I'd say avoid making decisions based on your current situation unless your back hurting is going to be a life time of hurt that can't be fixed. In that case, I'd still recommend training with the injury in mind.

Again, pick a gun that you can be comfortable carrying, be it a compact/subcompact or pocket gun. Also make sure you can SHOOT the gun and be able to aim well. A lot of people pick little bitty pocket guns that have poor sights or so small, it can feel like the damn thing is going to fly off your hand. I've shot a lot of little .380s like the LCP, and the S&W Bodyguard .380 and they can feel tiny but shoot like a cannon.

Personally, I don't like .40 but I don't want to state "that debate" here.

I highly recommend for a "fighting gun" to be either a subcompact to a mid size compact like a Glock 19 instead of a pocket gun that's really meant as a backup gun. I've seen people carry full size guns and still hide them well. Some argue on whether or not you "need" all that ammo or a big gun but it's your preference.

Again, my personal preference is that for a first time CCW shouldn't use revolvers because I believe the discipline and training behind a revolver is different compared to an auto and also easier reloads for newer shooters than with a revolver.

But most importantly is to get training. I'm saving up money and time to attend some of the classes I've been watching that does more realistic CCW training than just standing still hitting paper.
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Last edited by Excalibur; 07-15-2015 at 02:59 AM.
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  #19  
Old 07-15-2015, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
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Until your back gets better, I'd say avoid making decisions based on your current situation unless your back hurting is going to be a life time of hurt that can't be fixed. In that case, I'd still recommend training with the injury in mind.
I am quite literally missing some parts in my lower back, now. Good to know IWB won't press on me too much, though; took me 4 months to be able to wear a belt because of that.


I'm almost set on what I'd want to carry, still playing around with a few options. It will probably be a 9mm
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Old 07-15-2015, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S&Wshooter View Post
I am quite literally missing some parts in my lower back, now. Good to know IWB won't press on me too much, though; took me 4 months to be able to wear a belt because of that.


I'm almost set on what I'd want to carry, still playing around with a few options. It will probably be a 9mm
If you're wearing a proper IWB setup in the proper way, it's gonna press on you to the point where it becomes uncomfortable, especially if you carry a bigger gun. I find that when I IWB my P228 that it either presses into me or sags my pants, and since I don't want my gun sagging or flopping about I cinch my belt down to keep it in place, forcing it to press into me. It's not nearly as comfortable as OWB carry but it's not unbearably uncomfortable either, but if you have a serious back problem then it doesn't sound like it's for you.

Consider OWB carry and wearing a baggy shirt or overshirt to aid concealment. I find that the gun is not much harder to conceal but it is a lot more comfortable than IWB for me. The biggest thing to look out for is the bottom of the holster peeking out of the bottom of your shirt, but if you wear something long/baggy enough or an overshirt or jacket then concealment is just fine. As far as the draw is concerned, it's not much harder to draw from concealment with a baggy/extra garment if you pay attention to your garment grab when you draw. This is slowly becoming my preference for larger gun carry.

Whether you go IWB or OWB (again, I recommend OWB if you can find a way to hide it), carrying a gun on your waist also pretty much forces you to wear an undershirt in order to protect your skin from the metal gun which will fluctuate in temperature from hot to cold depending on where you go throughout the day, and in order to protect the gun from your sweat. I'm pretty much forced to wear a tank top under my shirt when I carry my P228 and it just makes south Florida that much hotter for me.

Pocket carry is tricky but super doable if you have the right setup. I carry my Model 60 no matter what the weather is like outside and I don't every worry about printing or getting made or anything like that because my setup is so idiot proof. If you get a good pocket holster and a proper gun, then the gun profile will vanish in your pocket (granted you wear spacious pants with large, deep pockets and you don't have huge legs that will press against the gun when you sit or crouch or anything like that). My DeSantis Nemesis is a good little pocket holster and only about 20-25 bucks online, so I recommend that to people if they consider pocket carry. However, I have been looking into Remora as they offer custom options like mouth reinforcement for reholstering ease, and most importantly, sweat guards on the holster. Half the time I go to put my Model 60 away at the end of the day, there's a wet spot on the metal between where the holster ends and the grip begins and I have to wipe it off. It's a good thing the gun is stainless or it would have rusted something fierce by now. Pocket carry will assuredly slow your draw, but when it comes down to concealability and convenience it is the best method hands down. Also, always dedicate a pocket to carrying your gun and NOTHING ELSE. You should never put stuff in your pocket on top of your gun for any reason, especially since your draw stroke is already a bit slower. Go for something that has a good finish too, since the gun will probably be exposed to sweat or moisture being in a pocket so close to your leg.

As for pocket guns, depending on your pocket size you can get away with some pretty big stuff. I've entertained the notion of pocket carrying autos like the Kahr K9, the Beretta 84F, the S&W 3919 and the 6906, among others, and I have faith that they are all easily carried with the proper holster and pants. I don't recommend any micro autos in .380 or 9mm because even if they are highly concealable, they are just crappy guns. You have no real estate to grip them so reloading and clearing malfunctions sucks, and they are more likely to need reloading since their mags are so small, and more likely to fail since their tolerances are so tight. Worst of all, when you do fire them, they kick like a mule because the caliber they fire is too hot for their design, and you have no grip real estate. When I had my Walther PPK (which isn't even a really light subcompact at 21 ounces without ammo), it shot very accurately but it kicked worse than all of my full sized 9mms, and this was with warm .380ACP loads. I can only imagine how bad a P238 or Bodyguard is. So, while they may be easy to carry, they are bad at everything else, which I find unacceptable in a carry gun. Yeah you may find one that's reliable and that you can reload well (probably not), but you could probably find a bigger gun that fits in your pocket that can do those things too, and shoot better. Find that gun.

If you must go as small as you can, I recommend all steel .38 Special revolvers like J frames. There are a lot of downsides to them, but I still think they are overall the best micro guns for pocket carry or general concealment.
They can be grabbed by the cylinder and stopped dead in their tracks, but autos can be pushed out of battery leaving the same problem. Granted, a slide grab might give you one shot if the slide stays in battery, where a revolver is done if the cylinder is stopped, so take that as you will. You will also not be reloading them very quickly, even with speedloaders (don't even bother with speed strips, they are a slow and unreliable means of reloading and require too much technique to master next to speedloaders which will always be faster, more reliable and easier to master). A revolver hammer is a snag magnet as well, though you can go with hammerless options.
Despite these problems, a revolver will not have a magazine or recoil related malfunction like an autoloading gun, and it cannot be pushed out of battery in a really close engagement. Most importantly, as long as the cylinder/hammer remain free to move, you will have 5 rounds at your disposal regardless of where the gun is, under your shirt, in your pocket, whatever. This can make the difference in tight situations. Since I don't view micro guns as "fighting guns" but more like "at least I have a gun" guns, meaning they will work in a fight where reloads probably aren't necessary, and capacity between micro autos and snub revolvers is negligible, I find them to be the best bet for a super small gun. Avoid airweight and .357 Magnum snubs like the plague, though, because the former will kick like a mule and the latter doesn't offer much more ballistic performance than a .38 Special in a proper loading, and will kick like a mule.
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