AK-47 vs M16

[k9870]

Well, gunmaster, ever try limbsaver? Mine is a slip on for my remington but tried it on my freinds winchester 94s and it makes them a peasant plinker you could shoot all day, and a couple hundred rounds in some trap is no prob on the 12 ga. Im sure it would look slightly out of place on a garand though lol.

As for the m16 vs AK debate, Im a 3rd party. If I could only pick between those too, M16. At least it shoulders well for me and has good sights.
Never could like the AK.

[Gunmaster45]

Strangley shotguns don't have the same recoil to me. Probably because I shoot shotguns offhand and fire rifles from a bechrest. My dad has has tons of recoil reducers and devices, but when testing customer's guns for accuracy, I can't customize them for my own needs.

One interesting recoil reducer is the Mercury suppressor, a small 1 lb bar that is inserted into the stock to add a pound to the rear of the gun and shift the recoil more to the shooters favor. Did wonders for my single shot duck gun (H&R 101-40B or something like that) in 3" shells.

Guys good to be part of your forum now been great fun reading. Gotta be the 5.56

[Spartan198]

Originally Posted by k9870

Why not get into a Sig 550 series vs. Galil debate?

Probably because the SIG 550 and Galil haven't been pitched up against each other in conflict after conflict over the last 40 years or so.

[ManiacallyChallenged]

Isn't the argument for 5.56 that it is controllable in automatic fire? That being the entire point of military doctrine these days, I would have to say that the M14 hasn't been an effective weapon in a squad role since World War I.

Also: welcome steve(numberstring). Happy reading.

Here's a fun weapon for you: the American 180. The huge submachine gun in .22rimfire. That was kind of the earliest version of the AN-94 in a way. The idea being it would put two or more rounds in the same place.

[Excalibur]

I don't know much about how soldiers are trained in full auto fire, unlike the movies, real soldiers don't often use full auto when shooting unless it's for suppression

[jdun]

Originally Posted by Spartan198

Probably because the SIG 550 and Galil haven't been pitched up against each other in conflict after conflict over the last 40 years or so.

There are two current rifles in the world that have been truly tested and combat proven in all extreme environments. Guess which two? AK and AR.

Anyone wants to get shot with 5.56? I don't think so. You can ask all the dead insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan on how effective the 5.56.

The M14 was bought back into the military because in the first Gulf War there was a need for a 7.62 caliber that can reach further then the 5.56 for Designated Marksman. The only thing that the USA military had at that time was the M14 in large quantity. So military got the M14 out of storage. The M110 (SR25/AR10) has replaced the M14 in that roll. In fact it replaced the standard bolt action sniper rifle. The M14 is being put back into storage.

[k9870]

I beleive the AR platform is being used since soldiers are familiar with it, less new training required. I would love to see .308 caliber battle rifles back. One vet I know told me "don't bring an m16 to a gunfight" He'd seen drugged up insurgents take a burst of 556 and one took 9 9mm rounds from an mp5. The m240 guarding their position never failed to stop a threat

[MoviePropMaster2008]

Who cares?

I got racks of both so I can fire nearly any variant I want at anytime

Ergonomics, accuracy, weight and recoil go to the M16 and it's variants...

Resilience, ruggedness, reliability go to the AK and it's variants.

And since I venture that the VAST MAJORITY of the members here have not fired these full auto at length I will point out the following:

What sucks: The M16 sucks when trying to clear a 'stuck' casing in the chamber. I've had to pull a gun completely and issue another one just because of that. In a filthy environment, the M16s are a real liability. I've had them malfunction in sandy environments and muddy raining environments. Mostly due to failure to load or extract.

The AK is way better when clearing the gun under fire.

When a shell gets stuck in an AK you just put the rifle's buttplate on the ground and kick the charging handle down with your boot (all battlefield expediencies). If the brass body stays in the chamber then you have to ditch the rifle, but it is easier to clear a jam than an M16. I've had to do this 'boot' clearing with the charging handles of M1 Garands in dirty battlefields as well. (make sure the barrel is pointing away from your face ) and in the case of magazine fed weapons, dump the mag first.

The M16 is safer when firing questionable ammo. If the charge is too hot then the slender aluminum magazine blows out the bottom of the rifle (of course the soldier should STOP firing immediately and return the rifle to the armorer). For the record I've never seen this anywhere when using ammo that *I* issue.

When firing prolonged bursts, the AKs get super hot (all guns do, but the AKs burn my hands). the M16s were designed for better thought towards heat shields and protection of the shooter. Also the Chinese TYpe 56 AKs have that stupid metal pin that traverses laterally through the lower wooden forearm, which ensures that you burn your hand when dumping a 30 round magazine. If you don't fancy the thought of carrying a scorching hot piece of metal around after firing, then the M16 is safer for the shooter.

Recoil: The AK is a shoulder killer. The M16 has that buffer spring to absorb a lot of the recoil - "Bang! ....Sproinggggggg!" Also with recoil buffers the guns are much nicer to shoot, but then these silicon/polymer recoil buffers are a recent innovation and were not available to soldiers for decades.

Both are excellent guns but both have their strengths and drawbacks.

[Nyles]

Originally Posted by Excalibur

I don't know much about how soldiers are trained in full auto fire, unlike the movies, real soldiers don't often use full auto when shooting unless it's for suppression

Actually when winning the fire fight, we shoot semi, about 30-40 rounds a minute. Full auto is for room clearing or taking a trench.