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  #31  
Old 09-27-2009, 12:33 PM
Ace Oliveira Ace Oliveira is offline
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Even though i doubt about Jordan going genocide on the Palestinian's asses, i think Egypt would do it.

About Jordan, they are not an democracy, but they are way better than most countries around it.

And Iran, they had a huge cultural change since the revolution. Most of the young adults and teenagers are liberal as hell. That is your cultural Revolution right there. However, the Shia motherfuckers are always there, mostly in the rural areas. Also, after all those protests and all the horrible shit the Iranian Government did to the protesters, no one will want to anything with Iran. Their foreign policy will be worst than it is now, especially here in the United States.
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  #32  
Old 09-27-2009, 07:38 PM
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Spartan198 Spartan198 is offline
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Iran, much like North Korea, would make a better sheet of radioactive glass on the ground than it is a sovereign nation...

What happened to the good old days when you could threaten rogue nations with nuclear annihilation if they didn't do what we told them to do? :P
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Last edited by Spartan198; 09-27-2009 at 07:41 PM.
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  #33  
Old 09-29-2009, 06:09 PM
Ace Oliveira Ace Oliveira is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan198 View Post
Iran, much like North Korea, would make a better sheet of radioactive glass on the ground than it is a sovereign nation...

What happened to the good old days when you could threaten rogue nations with nuclear annihilation if they didn't do what we told them to do? :P
What the motherfuck? So nukes are our way of dealing with things now? Iran would make a more than great ally in the middle east if the protesters win. Besides, you how retarded it sounds when the United States goes around evil countries saying that they can't have nukes when the US has thousands of them? Either the American Government gets rid of their nukes, or they will just sound like hypocrites. We don't need nuclear weapons anymore. Iran may have them and DRPK may have them too, but we don't need to sink to their level to fight them.

We don't need nukes. Nukes will lead to destruction of nations. It seems we will only learn that when one or two nations become a 3rd world shithole.
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  #34  
Old 09-29-2009, 08:58 PM
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Let's relax a little bit on the language, please? It's never a good sign when people start cursing at each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace Oliveira View Post
Even though i doubt about Jordan going genocide on the Palestinian's asses, i think Egypt would do it.
You act as though it didn't happen already? Although obviously Jordan now is very different from Jordan in 1970. But Arab regimes have repeatedly shown that they really don't mind killing larger number of the Pals than the Israelis ever have, whenever the Pals act up in their own countries. The way that Lebanon dealt with Fatah al-Islam a few years ago is a reminder that this still hasn't changed.

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Originally Posted by Ace Oliveira View Post
About Jordan, they are not an democracy, but they are way better than most countries around it.
I know it's a cliche to make this kind of analogy, so forgive me in advance, but...that's like saying that AIDS is better than a malignant brain tumor.

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Originally Posted by Ace Oliveira View Post
And Iran, they had a huge cultural change since the revolution. Most of the young adults and teenagers are liberal as hell. That is your cultural Revolution right there. However, the Shia motherfuckers are always there, mostly in the rural areas. Also, after all those protests and all the horrible shit the Iranian Government did to the protesters, no one will want to anything with Iran. Their foreign policy will be worst than it is now, especially here in the United States.
I've told you before, it's not a "revolution" unless it actually brings about change in government. And Iran isn't going to change because of the protesters. Those "Shia motherfuckers" you mentioned are a vast, VAST majority. I haven't done much work on this myself, but I can point you to some very good journal articles by people I know about Iran's demographics and why they favor Ack-mah-whatshisface. And why that won't change anytime soon, no matter how many Nedas get themselves killed facing down the Basji motorcycle thugs.

And the protests aren't going to have any effect on Iran's foreign affairs where it matters...Russia, China, North Korea, and Venezuela will always be open to doing business with them.
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  #35  
Old 09-29-2009, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace Oliveira View Post
What the motherfuck? So nukes are our way of dealing with things now?
Chill out. I think he's half-kidding. But anyway, the answer to his question is that threatening nuclear annihilation is kind of pointless. It's not what these stand-offs are really about, anyway.

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Originally Posted by Ace Oliveira View Post
Iran would make a more than great ally in the middle east if the protesters win.
...which they won't, as I've told you repeatedly.

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Originally Posted by Ace Oliveira View Post
Besides, you how retarded it sounds when the United States goes around evil countries saying that they can't have nukes when the US has thousands of them? Either the American Government gets rid of their nukes, or they will just sound like hypocrites.
We're not hypocritical at all. It's one of the perks of being a global superpower, actually.

Besides, one thing that's often overlooked is that the Russians and Chinese don't want Iran to have nukes either (at least, not implicitly) - they just enjoy using Iran as leverage against the U.S. to get what they want (in Russia's case, that means getting us to not put up ABMs in Poland and the Czech Republic).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace Oliveira View Post
We don't need nuclear weapons anymore. Iran may have them and DRPK may have them too, but we don't need to sink to their level to fight them.

We don't need nukes. Nukes will lead to destruction of nations. It seems we will only learn that when one or two nations become a 3rd world shithole.
Now you're just sounding ridiculous. Nuclear deterrence is all to the good. It means that nobody can go to war without destroying everything, in which case, there's no point in the first place. But arguing that we should NOT have nukes while the DPRK and Iran do is absurd.

And this applies to Iran and the DPRK. They aren't actually going to start nuclear war. Kim Jong Il enjoys his kidnapped Japanese actresses and cognac too much for that, and the same applies to Iran's clerics. They just like being able to use nukes as leverage to get what they want and keep themselves in power. The reason that the U.S. and Israel don't want Iran to have nukes is that we're afraid it will give Iran greater power to do other stuff (like interfere in Gaza, Lebanon, and Iraq by supplying militias) without severe repercussions.

When you get to college and if you go into Poli Sci, try reading Kenneth Waltz. Then maybe you'll understand why what you are saying now is naive bullshit.
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  #36  
Old 09-29-2009, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan198 View Post
Iran, much like North Korea, would make a better sheet of radioactive glass on the ground than it is a sovereign nation...

What happened to the good old days when you could threaten rogue nations with nuclear annihilation if they didn't do what we told them to do? :P
I dunno, the fact that South Korea became democratic and prosperous suggests that the Korean people aren't necessarily inclined to live under tyrannical thugs permanently. I'm not so sure about the Persians, on the other hand...they have a tradition of brutal autocracy that extends back, way before even Islam. But anyway, those people don't deserve to be nuked.

As far as what happened to the "good old days", the answer is M.A.D. As I've told our Brazilian friend, nobody really believes nukes will ever get used again any time soon (not by states, anyway...terrorist groups are another matter). Nukes are by definition a deterrent to combat usage.
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  #37  
Old 09-30-2009, 03:12 AM
joffeloff joffeloff is offline
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Iran's leaders are certifiably insane. They believe in the coming of the '12th imam', and believe that worldly armageddon is the way to make him arrive.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=...oq=&fp=1&cad=b

DPRK, sure, as weird as that little dude in platform shoes is, you can reason with him, he's just a megalomaniacal dictator who wants his daily supplies of russian kaviar and his garage with rolls royces in 32543 different colors. The theocratic leadership in Iran is different.

Also from the index this topic looks like it's titled 'I sure hate America'.
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  #38  
Old 09-30-2009, 03:30 AM
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AdAstra2009 AdAstra2009 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace Oliveira View Post
Most of the young adults and teenagers are liberal as hell.
If that were true than those protests would have been successful.

It's a psychological effect called an "Availability heuristic", meaning that simply because the protests were widely covered in the media -it makes you think that they are the majority even though they are really the minority.
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  #39  
Old 09-30-2009, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joffeloff View Post
Iran's leaders are certifiably insane. They believe in the coming of the '12th imam', and believe that worldly armageddon is the way to make him arrive.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=...oq=&fp=1&cad=b

DPRK, sure, as weird as that little dude in platform shoes is, you can reason with him, he's just a megalomaniacal dictator who wants his daily supplies of russian kaviar and his garage with rolls royces in 32543 different colors. The theocratic leadership in Iran is different.

Also from the index this topic looks like it's titled 'I sure hate America'.
Not that I don't find Shi'a Islam to be a really messed-up religion, but alarmist sites on a Google search are hardly a good way of assessing a regime's foreign policy.

Iran's clerics live decadent lifestyles, perhaps not as decadent as Kim Jong Il's, but still quite decadent nonetheless. They aren't about to sacrifice those lives, not even for Allah. The main utility of their ideology is that it lets them sound thousands of kids running across minefields so that they'll embrace martyrdom (see the Iran-Iraq War).
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  #40  
Old 09-30-2009, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdAstra2009 View Post
If that were true than those protests would have been successful.

It's a psychological effect called an "Availability heuristic", meaning that simply because the protests were widely covered in the media -it makes you think that they are the majority even though they are really the minority.
Exactly. The protesters are educated, speak English, and know how to use Facebook and Twitter. That's what gives them such easy accessibility to foreign media. If these cowardly reporters actually went to the rural areas or the slums of Tehran, they'd be greeted by hysterical fascist Shi'a men and women who preach about the glories of martyrdom. In other words, the kinds of people that whitebread pencil necks would never want to hang around. But demographically, the ultraconservative Shi'a are way, WAY in the majority in Iran. They're the reason that the Islamic Republic became what it is in the first place.
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