Stance on gun control

[funkychinaman]

I found myself nodding a lot. Getting older does moderate your views, and now sending kids into schools with lockdown drills sticks in the back in my mind.

I'm also curious, what violent Canadian city is he referring to?

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by funkychinaman

I found myself nodding a lot. Getting older does moderate your views, and now sending kids into schools with lockdown drills sticks in the back in my mind.

I'm also curious, what violent Canadian city is he referring to?

At 37, I don't have kids yet, but that's next on the agenda for me. (I just got engaged - again - last year.) I'm curious to see how parenthood will shape me. Certainly, I expect that it means I'll take gun storage particularly seriously.

I certainly have had my frustrations with many on the pro-RKBA right for many years now, but that's not a new thing (even 20 years ago, I had my annoyances with them, some of which I've expressed on this forum). For almost my entire life, my politics have never been a perfect fit for the community.

I also think Stan raised another good point in 2016: Some of the "gun culture" attitudes in this country do have roots in a siege mindset that comes from treatment by the left. For my part: I do find it disgusting that liberals who will vehemently oppose stereotyping of their favorite "protected classes" (race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.) as the highest evil have precisely zero guilt about doing the same to gun owners.

[Spartan198]

It was unpopular with some here last time I said this, but I still believe trigger locks of some type, even just the bike chain type that you loop through the action, are a reasonable legal requirement. Are they foolproof? No, no security system of any kind is, but they're not priced out the ass like a multi-gun safe and it at least shows a concerted effort to prevent a firearm from being used if taken by an unauthorized party.

Agree about the siege mentality. Plus, the whole "my way or the highway" attitude that both sides have these days is going to get them nowhere fast, regardless of the agenda.

[Jcordell]

In the past few months in my city, we've had two road rage incidents in which two sixty something white guys with big guts, mountain man beards and even bigger tempers have opened fire on cars next to them. Fortunately, they didn't kill or hurt the other occupants. We found them in a relatively short time, and they surrendered peacefully. Both are now in jail (or out on bond) and awaiting their day in court. Why did they do this? Because the cars had California plates on them, and our two heroes don't like the large number of Californians moving into Idaho. The occupants of the two victim vehicles were not armed and one of the cars was a rental with California plates. The driver of the rental was a native of Idaho for crying out loud!

Christmas morning, we had two guys get in an argument at a party and one shot the other one in the chest. The victim died from his injury about a week later.

We've had numerous incidents lately in which folks are waving around their legally owned and carried guns at bars, restaurants, sporting events and other social occasions. Usually when they are drunk or high and in a bad mood.

There have been many other occasions in which piss poor judgement and firearms have come together. It's only been the grace of God that I haven't had to shoot anyone. Eighteen months to my retirement. I'm crossing my fingers.

There are some folks who just shouldn't be gun owners. There was a time I wouldn't have said that, but time, age and 22 years as a police officer can change one's beliefs - or at least modify them.

No, I am not in favor of gun banning etc. But there are some who should not own or have access to firearms.

[Spartan198]

Sadly I think incidents like that, for just as petty or even pettier reasons, are going to rise before they go decrease and it's going to turn out badly for gun owners who don't seek to use their 2A rights to intimidate political and social opposites. I can only hope I live long enough to see some semblance of sanity reestablished within both sides. I'm not optimistic.

[MT2008]

Therein lies the frustration for reasonable guys like us: Many of us don't terribly like what we see from many on "our side" (i.e., the American right). I also think that many of us are perfectly willing to discuss gun control measures which fall short of banning anything. Unfortunately, for the extreme left, banning AR-15s is more of a reprisal against those on the right that they blame overturning Roe vs. Wade (side note: I'm personally not a pro-life zealot) than it is about public safety.

To Nyles' point from 2016: Gun ownership should not be a person's identity, but given the times that we live in, it's hard not to think of gun ownership as a lifestyle choice. When you own guns, you have to be careful about where you live and what you do at all times. So whether or not we like it, guns are often a pretty big part of our identity by virtue of the risks and life changes that come with ownership. Not everyone takes the responsibility seriously, but for those of us that do, we also feel a sense of siege when anyone tries to illegalize ownership.

Originally Posted by funkychinaman

I'm also curious, what violent Canadian city is he referring to?

Toronto? Seems as though I hear about shootings there all the time. When I was there in 2018, a rapper who is associated with Drake was shot outside of a club (only a few blocks from the AirBnB where my ex and I were staying!)

Googling indicates that Kelowna in B.C. is currently the most violent city in Canada (for 2022).

[S&Wshooter]

Every gun law is a stepping stone to further gun laws, with the ultimate goal of complete civilian disarmament. No matter how good intentioned such laws may be, history has shown that once they get rolling the push for further restriction doesn't stop. For everyone one of these incidents on the news (highlighted specifically to turn public opinion against gun rights) of Billy Bob shooting Cletus in a road rage incident, there are thousands of (intentionally) unreported defensive gun uses

[Jcordell]

Originally Posted by S&Wshooter

Every gun law is a stepping stone to further gun laws, with the ultimate goal of complete civilian disarmament. No matter how good intentioned such laws may be, history has shown that once they get rolling the push for further restriction doesn't stop. For everyone one of these incidents on the news (highlighted specifically to turn public opinion against gun rights) of Billy Bob shooting Cletus in a road rage incident, there are thousands of (intentionally) unreported defensive gun uses

I know I know. You make a good point as well.

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by S&Wshooter

Every gun law is a stepping stone to further gun laws, with the ultimate goal of complete civilian disarmament. No matter how good intentioned such laws may be, history has shown that once they get rolling the push for further restriction doesn't stop. For everyone one of these incidents on the news (highlighted specifically to turn public opinion against gun rights) of Billy Bob shooting Cletus in a road rage incident, there are thousands of (intentionally) unreported defensive gun uses

Understood. I prefer to make a distinction between what I support in theory (i.e., I don't think any and all gun control laws are inherently bad and/or unconstitutional) vs. what I am willing to support given our current meta (i.e., I recognize that in our hyper-polarized society, almost any gun control laws are likely to become a slippery slope to outright bans).

One point that I think needs to be considered and discussed more often by the absolutists on our side: If we say any and all gun control laws are unconstitutional, and oppose them only on that basis, it's only a matter of time before a "Repeal the 2nd Amendment" movement gains steam. There are already a growing number of folks on the left calling for such a repeal now than there were 20 years ago, or even 10 years ago. That is partially a result of the left in this country becoming more radical in general, but it's also a result of many on the right becoming more radical and "in your face" about gun ownership than before.

[Jcordell]

Originally Posted by MT2008

One point that I think needs to be considered and discussed more often by the absolutists on our side: If we say any and all gun control laws are unconstitutional, and oppose them only on that basis, it's only a matter of time before a "Repeal the 2nd Amendment" movement gains steam. There are already a growing number of folks on the left calling for such a repeal now than there were 20 years ago, or even 10 years ago. That is partially a result of the left in this country becoming more radical in general, but it's also a result of many on the right becoming more radical and "in your face" about gun ownership than before.

You are right. And with that then how long before there is a move to repeal other amendments which are just getting in the way of doing things. Maybe not the 1st but the 4th or 5th amendments are a pain in the neck aren't they. I suppose we could repeal the 3rd and nobody would care - until the military started quartering troops on your property because of housing shortages or budget issues.

No easy answers are there.