|
|
#31
05-18-2009, 09:47 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
God, whoever said that is stupid. Go to AR15 and post that crap. They going to eat you alive. Game kiddies should not be posting on gun boards. 
|
|
#32
05-18-2009, 10:40 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
But lots of them aren't just OLD Walter Mittys . I remember REAL veterans who bought into the urban myths on the battlefield. My own father was a decorated WW2 vet. He was a B.A.R. gunner, but he bought into the myth that the M3A1 grease gun had no rifling, had a smooth bore barrel and that's why it was called the "Grease gun" (he was never issued the M3A1, so he only heard this "urban legend" through other G.I.s. He did train on the Thompson). Anyway, it seems ironic that I am arguing with my father, who was a decorated World War 2 veteran (since passed away) about the M3A1 grease gun. It almost seemed disrespectful, if it were not for the fact that I was right and he was wrong.
|
|
#33
05-18-2009, 11:00 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Eh, I've seen Vietnam vets post on other message boards who hate the M16 series and constantly complain that our troops today are still using it. And when anyone argues with them, they do the same thing - they say "I'm a vet and you ain't, so shaddup! I know what I'm talking about! (*Insert insult about opponent's age here*)"
It seems understandable that they have the attitude, given the early issues. But what bothers me is that they don't seem to understand that the M16s we use today are, at least, rather different than the ones they used in 'Nam. I don't have much experience with ARs (barely any, in fact), but I still feel that their failure to understand the difference between an XM16E1 and, say, an M4A1 makes them hard to take seriously. Last edited by MT2008; 05-18-2009 at 11:03 PM.
|
|
#34
05-18-2009, 11:21 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
I've seen a lot of that in docs. The M16/M4 system today isn't a bad weapon, it just needs some improvements
__________________
 "There's a fine line between not listening and not caring...I like to think I walk that line everyday of my life." Blessed be the LORD, my rock, Who trains my hands for war, And my fingers for battle Psalm 144:1 “It is always wrong to use force, unless it is more wrong not to.”
|
|
#35
05-19-2009, 03:09 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
I actually haven't heard any of the Iraq vets I know complain about reliability, they were pretty OCD on their maintenance. The complaint is caliber. The person I work with was army before USCG, he saw 5.56 ricochet off windshields and house walls when the 7.62 would pierce it. And as to AR15.com, that site is full of mall ninjas, sorry Ive looked there when doing research before and it seems like they only care abpout how tacticool they can make their m4geries and if you try to say anything is better they flip out.
|
|
#36
05-19-2009, 04:09 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Well certain windows and house walls, but in Iraq, those walls are made of stone. If you fire a 5.56 into a wall of the average western style house, it goes right through the dry wall. a 5.56 should penetrate most windshields of cars, 9mm can penetrate the average car windshield.
__________________
"There's a fine line between not listening and not caring...I like to think I walk that line everyday of my life." Blessed be the LORD, my rock, Who trains my hands for war, And my fingers for battle Psalm 144:1 “It is always wrong to use force, unless it is more wrong not to.”
|
|
#37
05-19-2009, 07:37 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I will just interject two things.
One: The Box o' Truth. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/thebuickotruth.htm Check out the Buick o' Truth(that page smarted, cause my family used to own a Buick) Second: I think the phrase m4geries is the greatest thing.
|
|
#38
05-19-2009, 11:31 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Anyone that said the 5.56 ricochet off windshields has no creditability. The 5.56 have no problem penetrating unarmored car windshields. It's not my opinion it is a fact. It is also a fact that no small arms calibers has 100% stopping power. In other words you don't fire one shot and wait to see if your opponent goes down or not. You double tap your opponent. Double tap him again if he doesn't go down. Double tap him if he is moving. This happen in a matter of a single second. If the 5.56 was so bad then why did the Soviet made their own version? Current there are over 4000 US military personnel that were killed in Iraq. Keep in mind that I'm not trivializing their sacrifices. I just want to make a point. There is about 4000 Americans killed a month in car accident. There is about 4000 Americans that drown each year. There is about 4000 Americans that die from the flue each months. In over 8 years if the 5.56 was that bad as you said it is then you would expect far more Americans to die in Iraq right? I mean they went house to house killing those SOB. The Blackwater guys didn't have a problem killing with 5.56 at range well over 200 yards. There is always a trade off between large and small calibers. I'll list some of them. 1. Control. You get better control with the 5.56 then 7.62. Five paper targets at 25 yards. You have to double tap them each. Which calibers do you think will do it faster and more accurate? The 5.56. 2. Weight. You can carry twice as much 5.56 ammo then 7.62. 100 rounds of 7.62 vs 210 rounds of 5.56. Which would you prefer? In intensive combat you can go through hundreds of rounds in minutes. In place like Afghanistan you don't have a magic wand to conjure extra ammo. What you carry is what you got. Resupplies can takes a long time to arrive. 3. Magazine size. The 5.56 hold more per magazine then the 7.62. 4. Pain level. You can shoot 5.56 continuously without effecting your performance. That isn't the case with 7.62 where there is a point the pain will effect your accuracy. 5. Larger calibers mean bigger guns that translate to more weight you have to carry. Last edited by jdun; 05-19-2009 at 11:35 PM.
|
|
#39
05-19-2009, 11:36 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
I don't consider people in their 40s who have fought in Iraq gamer wannabe kids. And I personally wold like to see intermediate calibers but if its 308 vs 556, ill go 308. And not everyone likes the 556, what works for some doesn't work at all. And there are people who become so atatched to a platform they say everything else is crap. Ar15.com is one such place, you try to say anythings better than m4geries and they flip on you. Im even guilty of some bias, Like me thinking the Remington and Benelli pmp actions trump mossberg/NEF/etc.
|
|
#40
05-19-2009, 11:40 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
You friend is a game kiddie. He has no idea what he is talking about. If he was actually in the military he would have known that the 5.56 will penetrate unarmored car windshield without any difficulty. I have never meet a real combat vet that said differently. It's common knowledge.
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
