M16A4 in the Army

[Rockwolf66]

MT2008,
While yes the IRA did get a fair number of assault rifles and those two Barrets from american Sympathisers the bulk of their weapons came from Nations that were unfriendly to the US. I am talking about thousands of G-3A3 battle rifles from Lybia and according to the IRA itself surface to air missiles and metric tons of Semtex.

The US is the worlds largest legitimate arms dealer in the world. We literally arm entire countries with our weapons. After we legitamatly deliver them to a forign country we are no longer in control of those weapons.

The second Largest weapons dealer legitimatly and largest illegitamate arms dealer is China. Literally the Chinese have been caught trying to sneak entire semi-trucks filled with Military hardware into Mexico. I'm not talking underfolder AK varients and 100 round drums but Mortars, RPGs and the like.

As far as Yemen goes, It's a horrible little country at times and for about a ten year period people I know were jumping the border to let the locals know that training and harboring terrorists was a no no. The Ironic thing is that among my family the only person to be shot in the last 50 years was a civilian on the Saudi/Yemen border.

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by Rockwolf66

While yes the IRA did get a fair number of assault rifles and those two Barrets from american Sympathisers the bulk of their weapons came from Nations that were unfriendly to the US. I am talking about thousands of G-3A3 battle rifles from Lybia and according to the IRA itself surface to air missiles and metric tons of Semtex.

Actually, the G3s in the IRA's possession were of Norwegian origin. They were stolen from a military base in Oslo, I believe. Some were sold to the IRA, the rest to the ETA (a group friendly to the Provos).

Qaddafi gave them thousands of East German and Romanian-made AKMs (in fact, I think the IRA received more AKs than they had guerrillas to use them), plus RPG-7s, DShKs, SA-7s, flamethrowers, FN MAGs, and a whole bunch of "Wonder Nines" (mostly Taurus PT92s).

But before Qaddafi started sending them weapons, the IRA relied upon Irish-Americans to buy them weapons. Some of the "Armalites" in the IRA's possession were actually M16A1s stolen from the U.S. Army (some M60s, too), but most were AR-15s and AR-18s from American gun stores. I think they may have also received some HK91s and Mini-14s (an IRA gun runner mentioned this in his interview, but the shipment he was referring to got intercepted, so maybe those didn't reach the Provos).

Note also that since the American and Libyan pipelines were closed down, the splinter IRA factions have had little luck buying more weaponry. They bought some stuff on the black market in the former Yugoslavia and Czech Republic, but it's been much harder without a source as steady as Qaddafi or the Irish-American community.

Originally Posted by Rockwolf66

The second Largest weapons dealer legitimatly and largest illegitamate arms dealer is China. Literally the Chinese have been caught trying to sneak entire semi-trucks filled with Military hardware into Mexico. I'm not talking underfolder AK varients and 100 round drums but Mortars, RPGs and the like.

True. And perhaps China will step in to fill the gap, even if Obama decides to ban guns in this country.

But right now, it does seem that many of the guns being confiscated in Mexico are the same types that are available (in some cases, design for) on the American civilian market. Saying this does not mean endorsing gun control; it is simply a reality that it does us no good to deny.

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by jdun

No carbines doesn't mean it is made for civilians. All it means is a 16" barrel or less. Law Enforcement, military, and civilians all use carbines. It's a moot point. If you don't believe me go to a gun board and ask.

The issue is not the fact that they are carbines, it's the fact that they are carbines with 16" barrels. Military and SWAT teams use carbines with 14.5" and 11.5", only civilians are required to buy carbines with 16" barrels because that is law.

Originally Posted by jdun

How is manufacturing your own weapons cost less? Well, if an AK cost $500 each, the cost to smuggle the weapon into Mexico, danger of getting arrested, and fees for the buyers. Which is cost effective, produce it in Mexico/Latin America for $50 each or buy it from the USA?

But what if you know somebody, a relative or a girlfriend, who will smuggle the weapon for free? Not to mention that the cartel has people on a regular payroll in the states, people who don't charge on a per-gun basis.

And people are getting arrested for smuggling guns at the border. The image of the Five-Seven I posted was a gun captured in such circumstances.

Originally Posted by jdun

If you go to Youtube you will find many videos where drug gangs use fully automatic weapons against the police. Those weapons didn't came from the USA.

They might have been converted from semi-automatics bought in the U.S. It's much easier to convert a semi-auto to full-auto than to build a gun from scratch. If you argue that drug gangs are capable of manufacturing weapons, then why not converting them?

Also, as I've said before, I hope you don't assume ALL of the weapons used by the gangs are full-auto? The media may just be reporting it incorrectly.

Originally Posted by jdun

If the serial number is grind off how can they said it came for the USA?

Because more often than not, the guns are models that are made specifically for the U.S. civilian market. I've seen a picture of a PS90 semi-automatic carbine captured in an arms raid. That's a weapon FN developed specifically for the U.S. civilian market.

Originally Posted by jdun

However, what the Mexicans are saying is that ten of thousands of arms are coming to their country from the USA. That means they needs ten of thousands of straw buyers to not be trace back. Do you think out of those straw buyers that none of them would rat on the Mexicans? If one straw buyer bought over 1000 guns and all of them landed in Mexico, would that be easy to find out by the ATF?

Sure, but that's not how most of them do it. And those that are doing such obvious things, are the ones getting caught.

Also, referring to the IRA example: The IRA's chief gun runner in the U.S. said that in the 1970s, he bought 2,500 guns for the IRA. It was 10 years before he got caught. Gun laws are stricter since then in the U.S., and the ATF more alert, but surely you don't think Mexicans might have other ways?

Originally Posted by jdun

Disregard the propaganda in the video. Notice the primitive tools these kids use to make firearms? Making firearms isn't hard. It's very simple. American kids graduate out of high school without any trade skills whatsoever. Hence you got a lot of people thinking that firearms needs a magic wand and a clean room to produce. There are many videos floating around the net. This video is well known, tho.

http://rpginn.com/index.php?option=c...=365&Itemid=39

Don't me started with Yeman. Yeman has the largest ratio of gun per person in the world. Every villages produce their own weapons.

I am not disputing that firearms can and have been manufactured without advanced machinery. I have seen many videos like the one you posted. I have seen pictures of Pakistani gun stores where AK-47s and other weapons are manufactured.

However, I have seen many pictures of the weapons being confiscated from the drug gangs. Too many of them look like guns that are made specifically for the American civilian market, and their build quality is too perfect to have been built by Mexicans. When I see stuff like Glocks, Five-Sevens, PS90s, AKs with thumbhole stocks, ARs with 16" barrels, I think it's a safe bet that these guns were bought in the U.S. If I were a Mexican drug dealer, that is where I would go to get my guns. It is the most accessible and simplest place to start.