Wondernine Love

[Jcordell]

Originally Posted by Mazryonh

I don't mind "Wonder Nines," old or new. But ever since I discovered how much more powerful and versatile handguns in 10mm Auto can be, I like them much better.

Wasn't the first "Wonder Nine" the Browning Hi-Power?

Sort-of. According to some references a "Wonder Nine" is a high capacity (staggered column) nine millimeter handgun with a double-action trigger for at least the first shot. If that's your criteria then I would say the first "true" commercially produced Wonder Nine pistol would be the Smith & Wesson Model 59 (1971 - 1982) with it's 14 round magazine and double-action trigger. Double action 9mm pistols that preceded it (S&W M39, Walther P38) had single stack magazines. The Beretta 92 is the second Wonder Nine; it followed the Model 59 in 1975 and from there we were off to the races.

[Mazryonh]

Well, at least the Beretta M9 (what the Beretta 92 became) is still being upgraded today. Beretta recently announced the release of their M9A4 model, whose distinguishing feature is its optics-ready nature.

Why don't single-action-only 9mm handguns with double-stack magazines count in your definition of a "Wonder Nine"?

[commando552]

Originally Posted by Mazryonh

Well, at least the Beretta M9 (what the Beretta 92 became) is still being upgraded today. Beretta recently announced the release of their M9A4 model, whose distinguishing feature is its optics-ready nature.

Why don't single-action-only 9mm handguns with double-stack magazines count in your definition of a "Wonder Nine"?

The term "Wonder Nine" came about when they started being adopted by police departments as a more modern replacement for the .38/.357 revolvers they tended to use at the time. A revolver can fire double action on the first shot, so a lot of police would want the ability to do this with a replacement otherwise it would be a loss of a feature. Some forces even adopted DAO versions of DA/SA guns so that they felt even more like the revolvers they replaced with a simpler manual of arms. These DAO guns are still "Wonder Nines", but an SAO action version of the same gun would not be. This doesn't necessarily mean that a DA/SA or DAO gun is better than an SAO gun (although I personally think it is), it is just that the term "Wonder Nine" traditionally applies to pistols that were aimed at an LE market so the DA pull on the first shot is a very desirable feature.

[commando552]

Originally Posted by Jcordell

Sort-of. According to some references a "Wonder Nine" is a high capacity (staggered column) nine millimeter handgun with a double-action trigger for at least the first shot. If that's your criteria then I would say the first "true" commercially produced Wonder Nine pistol would be the Smith & Wesson Model 59 (1971 - 1982) with it's 14 round magazine and double-action trigger. Double action 9mm pistols that preceded it (S&W M39, Walther P38) had single stack magazines. The Beretta 92 is the second Wonder Nine; it followed the Model 59 in 1975 and from there we were off to the races.

Technically the first wonder nine is the VP70 in 1970, but that is such a werid gun it is kind of on the border. I think that the Beretta is also slightly beaten out by the CZ-75.

[Jcordell]

Originally Posted by commando552

Technically the first wonder nine is the VP70 in 1970, but that is such a werid gun it is kind of on the border. I think that the Beretta is also slightly beaten out by the CZ-75.

True. The Beretta 92 was designed in 1975, but commerical production began in 1976. Good point. I never even thought of the VP70. I suppose because of the rifle stock and the three round burst feature it occupies the 'machine-pistol" category in my mind. However, it could be considered a wonder-nine if you disregard those things and it is true that H&K made it for both the military and commerical markets.

[S&Wshooter]

Having a S&W 39, 459, and 5906, I'd say out of them the 39 is about as good a S&W automatic as you can get. As much as people complain about the DA triggers on the 1st and 2nd gen S&W autos you don't really notice it much when actually shooting, and the SA triggers are actually pretty good; wide, light, super short reset that's very predictable. I really like DA/SA 9s but it's kind of funny how a lot of them just aren't quite right for me, like there'll be one thing that bugs me just a little (decocker on P226, Beretta 92's exposed trigger bar, CZ75 only having a safety and no "good" way to decock, S&W 459 trigger being sharp on the edges, etc) that half makes me want to either suck it up and git gud reloading revolvers fast, or go for striker guns. Regardless, I love wondernines and DA/SA in general, enough that I've been shopping around for Ruger P series stuff, Taurus PT92's, Daewoo DP51's, and Beretta Cheetahs

[commando552]

What do you find wrong with the decocker on the P220s? Is it the specific design or you just don't like a decocker only as a "safety"? I carried a P226 and realy liked it, however I would concede that it is perhaps a litle more comlicated from a training perspective. From a military POV where pretty much everything has an on/off safety I know some people who had a hard time getting their head around how to use the decocker and what it actually did. With a safety it is either on or off, with a striker gun there is nothing to have to thick about, with a decocker gun it is safer sometimes than others but never actually safe which is odd for some people to work with. I loved the P226 though, I preferred it to the Hi-Power I had before and the Glock I have now.

[S&Wshooter]

Originally Posted by commando552

What do you find wrong with the decocker on the P220s? Is it the specific design or you just don't like a decocker only as a "safety"? I carried a P226 and realy liked it, however I would concede that it is perhaps a litle more comlicated from a training perspective. From a military POV where pretty much everything has an on/off safety I know some people who had a hard time getting their head around how to use the decocker and what it actually did. With a safety it is either on or off, with a striker gun there is nothing to have to thick about, with a decocker gun it is safer sometimes than others but never actually safe which is odd for some people to work with. I loved the P226 though, I preferred it to the Hi-Power I had before and the Glock I have now.

It is in an unfortunate place for quick use by a leftie, as is the slide release, but it's not really a big deal and won't matter to most users. I actually like the P22x series a lot, only reason I haven't gotten one yet is that they almost never come up used for a good price in my area

[Jcordell]

I'm a lefty when it comes to shooting. I carried the SIG P220 and the P245 for the first six years of my law enforcement career (2000 - Present). By the end of my time at the police academy (Idaho P.O.S.T.) I had gotten pretty adept at pushing the de-cocker lever with my trigger finger. However I also fired a couple thousand rounds through my P220 during the time at the academy; not to mention many hours of dry-firing and drawing and re-holstering my trusty SIG P220 (Made in W. Germany). I had to switch to the GLOCK 19 in 2006;department went to uniform issue of GLOCK pistols G21/G19. I have small hands and the G21 has a big grip. For a couple years after switching to the G19 my trigger finger would routinely push a ghost de-cocker. It never hindered me and as time went by it became less and less frequent. I don't use the slide release lever. I rack the slide. Once again a technique taught at the academy and one that I have used for the past 21 years. Habit, training, conditioning. Not saying one technique is better than another mind you.