SIG-Sauer P320 to replace Beretta M9

[Excalibur]

They do test pistols under extreme conditions and it's the military. They can replace entire weapon systems if shit happens to it. The US military certainly has the budget for it.

[Spartan198]

While unrelated to MHS, I feel compelled to reveal that SIG beat Glock AGAIN!

[Excalibur]

This in light of other branches like the US Marines adopting it.

[Mazryonh]

I'm personally wondering if the SIG P220 in 10mm sold enough for SIG-Sauer to try manufacturing a 10mm version of their SIG P320 handgun. Now that's something that US armed forces should try. With a pistol that can reliably hit targets without much ballistic drop past 50 yards while retaining a lot of energy beyond that distance, a soldier could carry one of these and honestly say s/he's not carrying a peashooter.

[Mandolin]

Originally Posted by Mazryonh

I'm personally wondering if the SIG P220 in 10mm sold enough for SIG-Sauer to try manufacturing a 10mm version of their SIG P320 handgun. Now that's something that US armed forces should try. With a pistol that can reliably hit targets without much ballistic drop past 50 yards while retaining a lot of energy beyond that distance, a soldier could carry one of these and honestly say s/he's not carrying a peashooter.

Except 10mm Auto isn't NATO standard and never will be. Besides, you're not engaging with a pistol at 50+ yards. You're using a pistol at under 10.

[Mazryonh]

Originally Posted by Mandolin

Except 10mm Auto isn't NATO standard and never will be. Besides, you're not engaging with a pistol at 50+ yards. You're using a pistol at under 10.

The process of something being admitted to, or barred from, becoming a NATO standard is a bit fuzzy. The US Armed Forces went with 5.56mm NATO in the Vietnam War long before it became a NATO standard in 1980. There was also the indefinite postponement of 5.7x28mm becoming a NATO standard when the Germans complained about their 4.6x30mm round being left out.

The infrastructure for widespread 10mm Auto manufacturing already exists, in the form of .40 S&W manufacturing lines (because .40 S&W cases are just 3mm shorter than 10mm Auto cases). Furthermore, using 10mm Auto in an compact-SMG-type (perhaps with an MP7-style layout) platform instead of 5.56mm SBRs can save money and soldiers' hearing, because SBRs waste a lot of powder in the casings with every shot, and SMGs are much easier to suppress efficiently from short barrels than SBRs, and SMGs are also quieter than SBRs when unsuppressed.

I still think it would be interesting if SIG-Sauer puts out a 10mm version of their M17 and M18 handguns and some gun vlogger tests it alongside the 9x19mm versions. If it comes down to the handgun or SMG, at least the ballistic performance and barrier-blind performance of the 10mm Auto over the 9mm Para will mean that the soldier with that handgun or SMG will be that much more capable.

[funkychinaman]

Originally Posted by Mazryonh

The process of something being admitted or barred from becoming a NATO standard is a bit fuzzy. The US Armed Forces went with 5.56mm NATO in the Vietnam War long before it became a NATO standard in 1980. There was also the indefinite postponement of 5.7x28mm becoming a NATO standard when the Germans complained about their 4.6x30mm round being left out.

The infrastructure for widespread 10mm Auto manufacturing already exists, in the form of .40 S&W manufacturing lines (because .40 S&W cases are just 3mm shorter than 10mm Auto cases). Furthermore, using 10mm Auto in an compact-SMG-type (perhaps with an MP7-style layout) platform instead of 5.56mm SBRs can save money and soldiers' hearing, because SBRs waste a lot of powder in the casings with every shot, and SMGs are much easier to suppress efficiently from short barrels than SBRs, and SMGs are also quieter than SBRs when unsuppressed.

I still think it would be interesting if SIG-Sauer puts out a 10mm version of their M17 and M18 handguns and some gun vlogger tests it alongside the 9x19mm versions. If it comes down to the handgun or SMG, at least the ballistic performance and barrier-blind performance of the 10mm Auto over the 9mm Para will mean that the soldier with that handgun or SMG will be that much more capable.

SOCOM has tremendous leeway when it comes to weapons selection, and they're happy with 9mm and .45 ACP.

[Spartan198]

Originally Posted by Mazryonh

The US Armed Forces went with 5.56mm NATO in the Vietnam War long before it became a NATO standard in 1980.

Same caliber, but different rounds. That was the M193 series. The round chosen for NATO standardization was the SS109/M855.

[Evil Tim]

Originally Posted by Mazryonh

I still think it would be interesting if SIG-Sauer puts out a 10mm version of their M17 and M18 handguns and some gun vlogger tests it alongside the 9x19mm versions. If it comes down to the handgun or SMG, at least the ballistic performance and barrier-blind performance of the 10mm Auto over the 9mm Para will mean that the soldier with that handgun or SMG will be that much more capable.

The main issue is that 10mm Auto has a really bad reputation in military / LE because none of the early guns that fired it worked properly and a lot of the early ammo was faulty.

[Spartan198]

Originally Posted by Excalibur

This in light of other branches like the US Marines adopting it.

The other branches adopting it is likely just a formality. It's highly unlikely they could justify buying more M9s while the Army is buying thousands of M17s and M18s. Besides, I'm pretty sure the Danish trials started before the other branches committed to MHS.