The XM8

[StanTheMan]

Originally Posted by Excalibur

As a civilian in America and not rich, it'll be hard press for me to own even a clone of a G36 unless I go to Vegas for a weekend. H&K really has problems with customer services when it comes to civilians and rather not deal with American importation laws to get their awesome products on US soil. Is it so hard for them to say build a plant in America and have guns locally produced. If clones of MP5s are being imported, why not authentic HK stuff? All we get are pistols and expensive rifles. The 416 and 417 in civilian doesn't really add much to the existing AR market compared to say if they introduced an unchanged civilian G36 to US market. Sure it's a bit dated without fancy rails, but gun people will throw their salaries at it. Hell, even I will.

I think any smart company would have thrown the XM8 to the civilian part and see if it sells. Maybe even a limited run

Ditto on pretty much all of this.

Also thought it was real strange to hear G36s having problems until I heard those same rumblings that they started fuggering with the polymer compounds in production as you mentioned. As you said, worrying about how much you can use your gun before melting is not a concern that should come up. Not that it really matters in my case; My old-fashioned ass really still doesn't believe in having a lot of plastic on guns. There are a few exceptions, the biggest of course being Glocks, but pretty much almost none of them have ever felt good in my hands so there it is. But they are the deal now, guess I was just born too late.

Anyway, I agree the modular basic-platform concept is a good one especially from a logistical POV, but as you said, they are jack-of-all, master-of-none and thus aren't real replacements for dedicated-role weapons and I feel the problem is that many think they should be, a mistake. As said you can't just stick a drum or big mag on a long-barrel rifle and call it a real squad machine gun much less expect it to actually perform like one.

Though I think you make a good point that in a pinch or certain missions that actually can be preferable perhaps. And more viable as time goes on and they get better with those larger magazines. I still think a real base of fire weapon requires QCBs and belts.. go big or go home, I guess.

On the other hand, I think the sharpshooter/marksman rifles are (and have been) a better path to go on as many times you don't need 'true sniper rifles' - A more accurate version of the base platform works good enough in most instances, operationally. At least so it seems to me.

[Excalibur]

the battlefield is evolving constantly with near ideas mixed with age old tactics.

I think the XM8 and a lot of other weapons made around that time were a sort of turning point type of gun where they tried to make something new but over taken by today's "tacticool" age.I recently have a handguard with M-Lok added to my AR. I got QD points for a sling, etc. All the cool stuff but they also serve a real purpose than just "being cool". Early 2000s was all about quad rails. Now it's about Keymods and M-Lok. The consumer doesn't just want 1 type of gun. They want it to be modular.

The military at large has always been slow to adapt new things mostly on the basis of money, well LARGELY because of money and training. That's why adopting a new pistol isn't going anywhere because the top brass doesn't seem to have faith that your average grunt can handle a pistol without a manual safety.

[Spartan198]

One thing about the M27 vs SAW debate is that you can't clear a room with a SAW, leaving its user at a clear disadvantage in urban combat. They're still retaining SAWs for when their capabilities are required, though. The M27 isn't a replacement for all SAWs, as is commonly believed.

On the topic of the XM8, I could have gotten behind the last version made.



But it just came too late in the program. I would say all it needs would be to extend the side and underbarrel rails further back, an AR-compatible magazine well, AR pistol grip adapter, and side-folding buttstock.

[Excalibur]

Kinda looks like what the Beretta ARX-160 could have been.The handguard needs to go with an uninterrupted rail on all sides to make this a bit more streamline and the rail underneath needs to extend all the way to the end...

I also wonder if this thing has a bolt hold and bolt release switch to truly make it modern

[Spartan198]

Originally Posted by Excalibur

I also wonder if this thing has a bolt hold and bolt release switch to truly make it modern

The XM8 had a bolt release inside the trigger guard. And just having a bolt release in the first place, I would assume it also had a hold-open device, because otherwise what's the point?

[Excalibur]

The original G36 doesn't...I think. Actually when I think about it, the whole bolt release device seemed kinda of an American thing for a while unless you include the FAL.

[commando552]

Originally Posted by Excalibur

The original G36 doesn't...I think. Actually when I think about it, the whole bolt release device seemed kinda of an American thing for a while unless you include the FAL.

Quite a few European guns have them, off of the top of my head for example, the SA80, SIG SG 550, Beretta AR-70, and I'm sure there are probably others. I believe that the G36 has a last round hold open and a manual bolt hold open, but as standard doesn't have a bolt release. The manual hold open is a nub inside the trigger guard which is pushed upwards to lock the bolt, however there is a H&K made replacement for this part which has an L shaped shelf attached which allows you to bull the catch downwards to release the bolt without running the charging handle.

This is basically the same as how the XM8 bolt hold open/release works. A lot of people have a problem with the bolt controls being inside the trigger guard, but it isn't as unsafe as some people say as the proper way to use the bolt release is with the thumb of your support hand after inserting the magazine.

As for the slightly odd rails on the XM8R stopping ahead of the receiver, my guess is that the reason for this is that there is a big trunion kind of thing coming out of the front of the receiver around the barrel which the handguard sheaths over, which wouldn't really work with an aluminium rail handguard (and if it did you would need to make the handguard larger to accommodate this). Doing it this way also means that you have a comfortable handguard without having to add extra accessories.