For want of a shotgun

[Excalibur]

Yeah, there's nothing stopping a criminal from legally purchasing a very short barrel to make an SBS to use in a crime...and I always point this out...defeats the purpose of the NFA that punishes you for making one NOT for criminal use.

[funkychinaman]

Originally Posted by Excalibur

Yeah, there's nothing stopping a criminal from legally purchasing a very short barrel to make an SBS to use in a crime...and I always point this out...defeats the purpose of the NFA that punishes you for making one NOT for criminal use.

Or just walking into a Walmart buying a Remington 870 Express for $300, and cutting down the stock and barrel at home.

[funkychinaman]

Originally Posted by funkychinaman

Or just walking into a Walmart buying a Remington 870 Express for $300, and cutting down the stock and barrel at home.

BTW, hypothetically, would I be able to legally cut down a 26" barrel to a still legal length?

[Maxman]

Originally Posted by funkychinaman

BTW, hypothetically, would I be able to legally cut down a 26" barrel to a still legal length?

As long as it is at least 18" with the bolt closed, it does not become a short barrelled shotgun.

Here in Canada, a rifle or shotgun barrel can likewise be shortened to 18", but any shorter and it becomes a prohibited device (it's something of a grey area to shorten a barrel that is already under 18").

[Excalibur]

I've been eyeing this really old Browning auto 5 that's been at my local gun store. It's barrel is the shortest it legally can and just handles really well. For 350, it's a steal

[Mazryonh]

Originally Posted by Evil Tim

You're assuming psycho / sociopaths have a good grasp of indoor combat tactics. Some of these guys don't even realise they can shoot through wooden doors. Often when you read accounts of spree killers encountering locked doors their solution was to bang on the door and demand the occupants open it, because they're that far gone that they think they have a right to kill those people.

About "shooting through doors"--I'm sure that the Oscar Pistorius case has alerted many to that fact if they didn't know it already. And yes, these killers often seem so blinded by rage they don't know what to do when stopped by a locked/barricaded door. The Isla Vista shooter had the brains to write a 100-page-plus manifesto, but had no idea what to do other than resort to shooting people on the street when the building he most wanted to enter was locked (as he should have known it would be).

Still, the door-breaching ability of shotguns isn't that hard to find out about, and relatively simple to perform with widely-available tools. Haven't there also been reports of gang members going undercover and joining the US military to get military training to use in crime as well? That's another source.

Originally Posted by Excalibur

Yeah, there's nothing stopping a criminal from legally purchasing a very short barrel to make an SBS to use in a crime...and I always point this out...defeats the purpose of the NFA that punishes you for making one NOT for criminal use.

I haven't heard of many crime reports where shooters fancy themselves the next Clyde Barrow and use cut-down shotguns. Do you have some links?

[funkychinaman]

Don't you need special ammo to breach doors?

[Mazryonh]

Originally Posted by funkychinaman

Don't you need special ammo to breach doors?

You need special ammo to do so with the largest margin of safety, but even birdshot will work, as will buckshot and slugs.

[Evil Tim]

Originally Posted by Mazryonh

About "shooting through doors"--I'm sure that the Oscar Pistorius case has alerted many to that fact if they didn't know it already. And yes, these killers often seem so blinded by rage they don't know what to do when stopped by a locked/barricaded door. The Isla Vista shooter had the brains to write a 100-page-plus manifesto, but had no idea what to do other than resort to shooting people on the street when the building he most wanted to enter was locked (as he should have known it would be).

Having read some of the manifesto I think it's more narcissistic personality disorder + autism + persistence than brains, he comes across as a pretentious idiot who's been educated above his level of intelligence but still can't hide he's 99 cents short of a quarter. Most of the 100+ pages isn't his "manifesto," it's him relating stories of his attempts at getting laid that make Chris-Chan look like Shaft.

You have to remember that these people do not think like normal people. The shooting is about them becoming a god to the puny insects. imagining the puny insects might act to preserve their own safety would undermine the reasoning that lets them think it's ok to be shooting at them in the first place.

Originally Posted by Mazryonh

Still, the door-breaching ability of shotguns isn't that hard to find out about, and relatively simple to perform with widely-available tools. Haven't there also been reports of gang members going undercover and joining the US military to get military training to use in crime as well? That's another source

That's mostly Mexican gangs IIRC (there's a lot more call for gunmen down there and a lot more money in it), but I don't think shotgun breaching of doors is a big part of standard soldier training. And re: widely available tools, you might as well just bring a hammer, axe or drill, which have the benefit of being much easier to get hold of and not requiring ammunition.

[Jcordell]

When I was in the Army it was my understanding that the more specialized training like breaching doors with shotguns was something that folks like the MP SWAT (the military police has SWAT - or whatever they call it) guys and Delta did. Folks who reach that level in the Army are going to be more career oriented and probably wouldn't have the type of discipline to go that far in the Army. The fanciest small arms training that I ever did was live-fire break contact drills in a five man squad. We did spend a fair amount of training with how to move with a rifle when moving to contact etc, but nothing very elaborate.

Your typical gangbanger has the drive and motivation of a wet washcloth. They're more about getting wasted and having sex with their nasty girlfriends in between sessions on their respective computer game player system - and that description comes from my experience of dealing with gangbangers. They're dangerous, but most of them are definite underachievers. Anyway that's my take on the legend of gangbangers infiltrating the military to get advanced combat training. Most of them don't make it through basic training and that isn't all that difficult to do.

I've been a cop for fifteen years and I've never done door breaching training - officially. I've done more on my own then what I've done while on duty in training.