Bought some new guns

[funkychinaman]

What's the grip of the sabre made of? That's not plastic, is it?

I did a page for Ryan's Daughter and it had the Germans supplying Irish rebels with Mauser 1871s. It looks like David Lean's reputation for being a stickler for details was true.

[commando552]

Originally Posted by funkychinaman

What's the grip of the sabre made of? That's not plastic, is it?

Yes, it is bakelite. I believe the earlier ones used a hard black rubber, but they switched to bakelite for some reason (my guess is that it wears less).

[funkychinaman]

Originally Posted by commando552

Yes, it is bakelite. I believe the earlier ones used a hard black rubber, but they switched to bakelite for some reason (my guess is that it wears less).

I didn't think they used plastic back in 1908.

[Nyles]

Well, bakelite isn't quite the same as modern plastics - it's got more of a glassy texture, and tends to break more easily than modern plastic. Oddly this doesn't have the same texture as other bakelite items I've handled, it's much closer to modern plastic.

I looked at the page for Ryan's Daughter and you're right, those are actual IG71s, not even 71/84s. Nice touch! Michael Collins and Rebel Heart, the only two onscreen depictions of the Rising that I've seen, just went with a mix of short and long Lee-Enfields and Gewehr 98s. They could have gone with relatively common 71/84s, although I suspect there's not alot of 11mm Mauser blanks out there.

Interesting bit of historial trivia, the Howth Mausers were smuggled in by Boer War veteran and novelist Erksine Childers, who wrote a very popular thriller novel called The Riddle Of The Sands (voted one of the best 100 novels of all time), who at the time of the Rising had actually returned to the British military and was serving in London. He later rejoined the Irish nationalist movement and was executed by the Irish Free State government during the Civil War in 1922.

[funkychinaman]

Originally Posted by Nyles

Well, bakelite isn't quite the same as modern plastics - it's got more of a glassy texture, and tends to break more easily than modern plastic. Oddly this doesn't have the same texture as other bakelite items I've handled, it's much closer to modern plastic.

That's why I was surprised they'd use it in something like a sword, especially the grip.

[commando552]

Originally Posted by funkychinaman

That's why I was surprised they'd use it in something like a sword, especially the grip.

The grip material doesn't really need to be that strong, it is the metal tang inside that provides the strength of the sword. Also, this material isn't actually Bakelite, that is just what people generically call it. The trade name for the plastic that was actually used on the sword was either Gryphonite or Dermatine, but I get mixed up on which way round they were. I think the way it worked is that the very first swords had a wood handle which splintered easily and are very rare these days, then they switched to the black synthetic Gryphonite handle (which I believe is sort of like Vulcanite/Ebonite), and then it was the orange/brown Dermatine handle (broadly similar to Bakelite) which I think are the final, most common type.

I don't know if this was done to the handle in the p1908, but you also got "composite" bakelite of various types which was more resilient and had a different texture, which was made by forming the resin on a textile base of some sort such as linen or canvas.

[funkychinaman]

I posted screencaps of the P1908/1912 sabers on the War Horse page. No good images of the grip though.