SCAR Testing Review Military

[jdun]

Every guns jams. That's just fact. The main selling point for the SCAR is ultra reliable, which it is not by many accounts. Two double feeds within 200 rounds from each other is unacceptable. Again double feeds take a lot longer to clear and you lose a magazine in the process.

AR15 is mechanically simpler then the SCAR, AK or any overhead piston rifle. It has at least one less part then piston rifles. In the AR15 DI the bolt is the piston.

[k9870]

Ars are simpler than AKs? Wow, next youll say its simpler than the mosin. Im willing to bet if the military had been using SCARs for 50 years then tried to introdce a "new" m16 to replace it the exact opposite of this conversation would be happening. I bet after a little field testing and a few modifications the SCAR will really shine. Like I said, the m16 took this long to get good. And I think a test of one SCAR is inconclusive. Ive seen other tests too. The SCAR also performed WAY better than the m4 in the infamous dust test.

[jdun]

Do not argue with me on the mechanical actions of rifles. You will lose because you never took the time to understand how rifles and pistols work.

AR15 DI are mechanically simpler then AK and any overhang piston type rifle. It isn't my opinion it is a fact.

[k9870]

Very few military people I know are impressed with the cartridge 556. I know people who stopped using mini14s or compact bolt guns for hunting yotes cause the 40 pound animal would suck up a round and run off. Now they use 22-250s or 12 ga. I dont want to think about what determined humans in the 150-200 lb range can take. An Iraq veteran once told me "dont bring an m16 to a gunfight." I neever liked the feel of them. My favorite part of the rifle is tricking people into slapping themselves with the charging handle. The SCAR runs cooler, like many piston guns. It outperformed the dust test. Its just as modular. One review there wont sway me. Besides, I bet FN will have it completely perfected soon and the military will still hold onto the current system due to costs. Well, replacin the m4 is step 1. Step 2, getting rid of the friggin beretta. Whos idea was it to use 9mm anyway?

And I still say the m16 took forever to work out the kinks, the sp-1 was a TRULY AWFUL RIFLE THAT DOES NOT DESERVE TO EXIST and now you have okay rifles. The Fact FNS start equals or exceeds 50 years of development on another platform is quite impressive.

And in the dust test the m4 jammed every 68 rounds, compared to the SCARs 265. Hm.

[jdun]

WTF? This isn't a caliber discussion this is about the SCAR.

Oh about the dust test. The M4 that was used in the test was an old beat up one. While the SCAR and other rifles were brand new. Once that was realized they redid the test and the reliability was about the same as the rest.

[Gunmaster45]

Originally Posted by k9870

I know people who stopped using mini14s or compact bolt guns for hunting yotes cause the 40 pound animal would suck up a round and run off. Now they use 22-250s or 12 ga.

The hell? I've killed coyotes with a .22 Magnum before, so maybe these guys just need to learn how to shoot. I've killed two coyotes with an Anshutz .22 Magnum bolt gun, both at the length of a 60yard field. The coyotes had mange and were wandering around at 4:00 in the afternoon, so it seemed humane to put them down. I went up to where they were and waited until they came out. I shot one in the heart. The other one I hit in the head when he poked his head out of the brush. It was a pretty lucky shot, I had about a two second window before he'd run back in the brush and the gun wasn't in my hands but I swung it up and hit him (I paced 55 yards from my shooting point). Not to brag though, I just wanted to clarify that if a .22 Magnum can kill a Coyote, a .223 Remington is damn sure capable of it. If you plan to kill and animal or a person, you should shoot for a vital area like the heart or the head. And any bullet will kill something if it hits the heart or the head with a 1 in a 100 chance of survival.

[k9870]

I saw some interesting suggestions on thr.us when i posted a poll on what next rifle should be:

SCARH, 260 remington
FN FAL, 7mm-08

Seems, well, wierd. A sig 550 in an improved 6.8 remington seems good to me. Then aain, I am a bit partial to SIG Sauer products.
And a 223 can kill yotes, but why not get a better tool for a job. A 22250 has less failures to stop, its the better tool. You want the best, not just whats serviceable. I was at the range today with my freinds m48, 8mm. Round comparable to a 308. We looked at the holes compared to a target a guy with his m4gery was shooting. Much bigger. Then you got the recoil shy people. I say get the best of both worlds with an intermediate cartridge and get a reliable piston system. Most systems these days are just a retrofit of a DI gun and mostly make it less reliable. Something like an LWRC is built from the ground up as a iston specific gun with good results.

[Gunmaster45]

I think the 550 series of rifles are SIG only, no Sauer.

I really don't favor those new and "exciting" rounds out today like the 6.8mm, I don't see what is so bad about what we have. We have the .50 BMG when we want to touch someone at a mile, we have a .300 Win Mag when we want to down someone at 1000 yards, we have a .308 Winchester for when we need to touch someone at 500-900 yards. We have a .223 Remington when we want to fight at up to 300 yards and at CQB. And we have multiple pistol caliber handguns and submachine guns at close range. I really think we have the basics covered.

[Phoenixent]

Originally Posted by jdun

Do not argue with me on the mechanical actions of rifles. You will lose because you never took the time to understand how rifles and pistols work.

AR15 DI are mechanically simpler then AK and any overhang piston type rifle. It isn't my opinion it is a fact.

You my friend are wrong on the AR DI being mechanically simpler. The AR has for that system a Gas Tube, Gas Key, two Gas Key Screws, Carrier, Bolt, three Gas Rings, Cam Pin, Firing Pin, Firing Pin Retainer Pin = 12 parts. The AK has a Gas Tube, Bolt Carrier, Piston, Bolt, Firing Pin = 4 parts. Less parts on the AK therefore it is mechanically simpler.

The intent of using a gas piston compared to the DI is to reduce fouling during combat. A gas piston AR is useless to law enforcement or civilians as they are not operating in the harsh environments that our troops operate in.

I have had the SCAR in my hand as we have demoed a couple of times there are still some things that are being changed on it on being the bolt handle. But overall the weapons operation is excellent. I am sure that if the SCAR had 50 years of development it too would changed in configuration. Think XM177E1 to M4A1 similar looks yet completely different systems each with there own problem.

I understand you stance as being pro AR system but the AR is not the only thing in the world and I have built over a Thousand AR's in my life so far.

[jdun]

Originally Posted by Phoenixent

You my friend are wrong on the AR DI being mechanically simpler. The AR has for that system a Gas Tube, Gas Key, two Gas Key Screws, Carrier, Bolt, three Gas Rings, Cam Pin, Firing Pin, Firing Pin Retainer Pin = 12 parts. The AK has a Gas Tube, Bolt Carrier, Piston, Bolt, Firing Pin = 4 parts. Less parts on the AK therefore it is mechanically simpler.

The intent of using a gas piston compared to the DI is to reduce fouling during combat. A gas piston AR is useless to law enforcement or civilians as they are not operating in the harsh environments that our troops operate in.

I have had the SCAR in my hand as we have demoed a couple of times there are still some things that are being changed on it on being the bolt handle. But overall the weapons operation is excellent. I am sure that if the SCAR had 50 years of development it too would changed in configuration. Think XM177E1 to M4A1 similar looks yet completely different systems each with there own problem.

I understand you stance as being pro AR system but the AR is not the only thing in the world and I have built over a Thousand AR's in my life so far.

I'm sure you built over a thousand AR in your life time.

Piston doesn't reduce fouling in a gun. It change where the fouling is located. The fouling doesn't magically disappear in piston gun. I shot my AKs and you know where all the fouling is located? The piston and the piston tube.

The SCAR use a modified AR18 action. It's nothing new. Just a different stock.