Some guns from Libya

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by Spartan198

So Gadaffi's (I don't know if I spelled that right, but no matter) forces use Belgian and Russian weapons against civilians and no one gives two shits, but they use an American weapon and everyone is up in arms about how we're the direct cause of Gadaffi's actions?

I'm getting to the point where I fucking hate the world.

Who are you referring to?

Playing devil's advocate for a second, most of the commentators who point out stuff like this are remarking on the irony that the U.S. has provided weapons to dictators while claiming to pursue a foreign policy based on the promotion of democracy and freedom (at least, during the more neo-conservative Bush era). Belgium and Russia do not have such foreign policies, so they're not such easy targets for accusations of hypocrisy.

But I do agree that their criticism goes too far if they are blaming the U.S. for Gaddafi's actions.

[Spartan198]

Originally Posted by MT2008

Who are you referring to?

Comments on online news stories and forums, YouTube, and such are always condemning us for it. I know taking words from random anonymous Internet people (no offense, IMFDB) seriously is probably telling of my less-than-groundbreaking level of intelligence, but those represent a person's opinion just like marching outside a building with a sign in your hand does.

Playing devil's advocate for a second, most of the commentators who point out stuff like this are remarking on the irony that the U.S. has provided weapons to dictators while claiming to pursue a foreign policy based on the promotion of democracy and freedom (at least, during the more neo-conservative Bush era). Belgium and Russia do not have such foreign policies, so they're not such easy targets for accusations of hypocrisy.

The US' foreign policy is irrelevant, IMO. One day everything in a random country we decide to provide a FAS package to could be all kosher, then the next day it could go to complete shit. We get heat for giving Saddam Hussein weapons and training Mujaheddin fighters in Afghanistan in the 80s, but how were we supposed to know we'd be fighting them in 20 years? We aren't a nation of psychics who can look into a crystal ball to see who our next enemy will be. As far as Libya goes, weren't they on the UN human rights council just prior to Gaddafi turning his army on civilians?

You do make a valid point about Belgium's and Russia's foreign policies in contrast to the US', though.

But I do agree that their criticism goes too far if they are blaming the U.S. for Gaddafi's actions.

Yeah, that's a point I always try to get across to critics. Who the person using the weapon got it from is irrelevant, it's the person using it that's at fault. Would I be responsible if I sold a baseball bat to some dude at a yard sale that he used 10 years later to crack some other dude's skull in? No.

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Hey Markost, your avatar, does that FM stand for that Argentine military factory?

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by Spartan198

Comments on online news stories and forums, YouTube, and such are always condemning us for it. I know taking words from random anonymous Internet people (no offense, IMFDB) seriously is probably telling of my less-than-groundbreaking level of intelligence, but those represent a person's opinion just like marching outside a building with a sign in your hand does.

If you admit this, then you aren't stupid. Just a little too addicted to being argumentative. I used to be the same way; as a lonely teenager, I used to waste hours on message boards in debates (probably more than BurtReynoldsMoustache).

Originally Posted by Spartan198

how were we supposed to know we'd be fighting them in 20 years? We aren't a nation of psychics who can look into a crystal ball to see who our next enemy will be.

Being psychic has nothing to do with it. Unless you think we needed to be psychic to realize that, in WWII, we were aiding a future enemy (the Soviet Union) against a current enemy (Nazi Germany).

I am familiar enough with realism in American foreign policy to know that considerations of ideology are often irrelevant. We aid state and non-state actors whose ideology is at odds with liberal democracy whenever it suits us.

Originally Posted by Spartan198

As far as Libya goes, weren't they on the UN human rights council just prior to Gaddafi turning his army on civilians?

Yes, but the UN is a joke. Many dictatorships have been allowed to chair committees in the UN that are meant to promote human rights - even though these same governments are some of the world's worst human rights violators.