Osama Bin Laden dead

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by Spartan198

As much as I want to believe one of our Team 6 boys ventilated OBL's skull, things aren't really adding up when I further contemplate it.

Firstly, only one photograph of his remains is circulating the web and it's believed to be a digitized hoax (Google "Osama Bin Laden Corpse" and decide for yourself, but while an admittedly gruesome image, it looks Photoshopped to me).

And secondly, we've seen in the past how US military/federal agents love to make a show of parading captured terrorists in front of TV cameras or releasing photos of dead ones' remains into the media. But with the most wanted terrorist in US history now allegedly dead and his remains in US custody, they ever so suddenly, and with very little fanfare, give him a quiet "burial" at sea? It makes no sense. Since when does our government decline an opportunity to toot its own horn? Never that I know of. And keep in mind that our failure to immediately capture OBL has constantly been used as a joke against us by the international community. Why would they decline an opportunity to rub this back in the faces of the likes of Moscow, Tehran, and Beijing? They wouldn't, they'd want to make us look as badass and tough as possible in our rivals' eyes.

I want to believe we got him just as much as you guys do, but the course of events aren't matching up to me. With the only known photographic evidence being suspect, no known publicly-available video footage of the raid, and our only "confirmation" that he's dead coming from the mouth of the president and "sources" of various news agencies that may or may not be credible, I'm finding this whole situation a little suspect and hard to swallow.

I think you are being a little too cynical.

As Evil Tim pointed out, it's a bad idea to publicly display Bin Laden's body if he has followers who will just see him as a martyr. This isn't a case of the Obama administration being "respectful" of Islamic tradition due to their liberal naivety; there are historic precedents where the same decision was made.

That being said, I'd expect the horn-tooting to commence sooner rather than later. Obama's address last night was full of swag and confidence that I've almost never heard in any speech he's given related to the War on Terror. I can already tell that he's going to milk this victory for all it's worth (because let's face it - he needed this, badly, to have a chance in 2012).

[Spartan198]

Originally Posted by funkychinaman

Okay, they said that DNA testing is underway. Man, what if they were wrong? You'd think the administration would want to be absolutely certain before going public with this.

That's another thing. Obama said during his address that OBL was identified with DNA testing, but now they're saying DNA testing is underway and that he was identified with facial recognition.

Originally Posted by MT2008

I think you are being a little too cynical.

Believe me, I hope that's all it is.

As Evil Tim pointed out, it's a bad idea to publicly display Bin Laden's body if he has followers who will just see him as a martyr. This isn't a case of the Obama administration being "respectful" of Islamic tradition due to their liberal naivety; there are historic precedents where the same decision was made.

Yeah, I didn't think of it that way and I can see that being valid reasoning behind such a quick and quiet disposal.

[k9870]

Thing is, there was live footage of the raid. We get....nothing. Bin laden;s body was in custody for hours and....nothing. Its just weird.

[Evil Tim]

One imagines after the whole wikileaks thing they're going through any footage with a fine tooth comb before they release it so there's absolutely no way anyone can identify the men in the team that killed him. Because if they can, someone will, even though they might as well paint a target on those men, their friends, their families...

[k9870]

I can understand holding footage but i doubt well ever see it. Pics on the other hand no reason to hold back.

[funkychinaman]

The news now is that OBL was unarmed, but "resisted." Part of me knows that we're safer with him dead and not an inviting target for some rescue mission, but another part of me wonders if could've gotten him alive and gotten more intel out of him if the SEALs had responded with a taser or rifle butt instead of a double-tap to the noggin.

[k9870]

I dont think they ever planned to take him alive, and i still think its 50/50 if it was seal killing him or if he had a bodyguard end his miserable life so he wouldnt be taken alive. Hes dead though and thats all i care about.

[Spartan198]

Originally Posted by funkychinaman

The news now is that OBL was unarmed, but "resisted." Part of me knows that we're safer with him dead and not an inviting target for some rescue mission, but another part of me wonders if could've gotten him alive and gotten more intel out of him if the SEALs had responded with a taser or rifle butt instead of a double-tap to the noggin.

I can't really see AQ executing any kind of daring assault on Gitmo or whatever military base he ended up imprisoned on.

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by funkychinaman

The news now is that OBL was unarmed, but "resisted." Part of me knows that we're safer with him dead and not an inviting target for some rescue mission, but another part of me wonders if could've gotten him alive and gotten more intel out of him if the SEALs had responded with a taser or rifle butt instead of a double-tap to the noggin.

Think about it...

(1.) Bin Laden was chronically ill (which is why I personally had always believed he might be dead before now) and almost surely not physically capable of planning any day-to-day operations within the Al-Qaeda leadership or broader network. Even if he was physically able to continue his work, it would be too risky for other Al-Qaeda members to work with him due to his most-wanted status. His role in Al-Qaeda since Tora Bora has almost surely been as a symbol, not much more. Therefore, what useful intel could he provide that any of his subordinates could not?

(2.) His death has greater political significance than his capture ever could: Obama always said that we would leave Afghanistan when we were sure Al-Qaeda was destroyed and Bin Laden killed. There was always an implication that when the latter happened, the former would be accomplished (obviously, this is not true in reality, but symbolically, such a claim has resonance in the U.S.). Obama obviously would prefer we left Afghanistan given that we're never going to defeat the Taliban and the war is a drain on our resources. Now that Bin Laden is dead, he can claim we "won" in Afghanistan.

(3.) If Bin Laden had been captured, what do you think Al-Qaeda would do to get him out? Obviously, there is still a (perfectly legitimate) fear that they'll retaliate for his death, but isn't it still preferable that we not have to be put in a position where we have to choose between releasing Bin Laden and sacrificing lives?

Sorry, but I think Obama made the right call this time. Maybe I'm giving him too much credit, but I would expect that he and his staff carefully considered the value of Bin Laden alive vs. Bin Laden dead before they made the decision. Besides, considering Obama's reputation, did you really expect him to greenlight this kind of operation? That's what's so beautiful about it - the most liberal President we've ever had has just authorized the killing (without due process) of the world's most evil terrorist. Obama may talk naive bullshit on foreign policy and terrorism, but Carter, he ain't. Good for him.

[Markost]

So... what the hell was down during OBL raid? They´re talking about a stealth Blackhawk on the web: