Uh oh

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by k9870

You seem to assume North Korea would stay a separate state, I think the south would annex and reunify the korean peninsula.

You're again forgetting the big problem: Economic integration. When you annex an extremely poor country with 25 million people who have been living in ignorance for generations, it's a huge economic drain. South Korea's economy isn't strong enough to withstand a sudden influx of millions of unskilled, illiterate peasants. It would much tougher than Germany being re-unified, for example (and East Germany, while stunted by communism, wasn't nearly as poor as North Korea is).

Originally Posted by k9870

China should just annex north korea, the chinese abuse human rights but not nearly as much, its like the lesser of two evils, besides, the commies killing each other off in a war is win win for us.

I told you earlier than Chinese and Koreans hate each other. There would be civil war if that happened. And it would be a drain on China's own economy to boot. It wouldn't be a win-win for us, either, because China holds most of our debt.

Also, I think I've said this already, but the PRC and DPRK regimes are hardly communist at this point (fascist/ultra-nationalist would be a better description).

Originally Posted by S&Wshooter

To be honest, if China would tighten it's leash on North Korea, North Korea wouldn't be such of a problem

The Chinese do try to keep the North Koreans from getting too crazy (because they, more than anyone else, would stand to lose big from a war in the region), but it's not easy for them.

[funkychinaman]

I think the economic integration issue is the elephant in the room. None of the news stories mention this. Basically, South Korea has nothing to gain in a war, even if they do win. (And I'm guessing they would. I don't see Red China risking their relationship with the US to prop up someone as unreliable as Kim Jong Il or his successors.) According to one report, in the twenty years since German reunification, the German government spent $1.9 TRILLION trying to bring the east up to par, and they're still not even yet. I can't even imagine how much it would cost to reintegrate North Korea. Sadly, the status quo, minus the random attacks, appears to be the best solution for all.

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by funkychinaman

And I'm guessing they would. I don't see Red China risking their relationship with the US to prop up someone as unreliable as Kim Jong Il or his successors.)

In spite of the U.S.-PRC economic relationship, the Chinese would not be able to tolerate an ROK and/or U.S. war with the DPRK. They also understand, however, that this is extremely unlikely to happen because it would be strategic suicide for all parties involved.

Originally Posted by funkychinaman

According to one report, in the twenty years since German reunification, the German government spent $1.9 TRILLION trying to bring the east up to par, and they're still not even yet. I can't even imagine how much it would cost to reintegrate North Korea. Sadly, the status quo, minus the random attacks, appears to be the best solution for all.

Exactly. Thank you for backing me up on this part.

It is a shitty situation, but in foreign affairs, you have to play the hand you're dealt.

[funkychinaman]

Originally Posted by MT2008

It is a shitty situation, but in foreign affairs, you have to play the hand you're dealt.

But that's the thing: how many times are we going to allow them to poke us with a stick before we (as in the west) retaliate? I don't think anyone wanted to invade Afghanistan before fall 2001 either, but we felt we had no choice. How far does this go? How much does South Korea tolerate? (And after a sunken warship AND shelling, the answer so far is: A LOT.) Will they be dumb enough to go after us ? (as in the US.) And what happens if they do?

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by funkychinaman

But that's the thing: how many times are we going to allow them to poke us with a stick before we (as in the west) retaliate? How far does this go? How much does South Korea tolerate? (And after a sunken warship AND shelling, the answer so far is: A LOT.) Will they be dumb enough to go after us ? (as in the US.) And what happens if they do?

Seriously, I don't know how much we can tolerate. The only thing I can say is that we know what the DPRK wants and why they do what they do (two words: regime survival). As long as we know this is the case, it makes no sense for us to allow (or participate in) an all-out war, given the consequences to us. That gives the Kims some leverage against us, but it also won't necessarily allow them to do what they really seek to do, which is to get concessions from us.

Originally Posted by funkychinaman

I don't think anyone wanted to invade Afghanistan before fall 2001 either, but we felt we had no choice.

Afghanistan is not North Korea. The consequences of invading Afghanistan were not nearly as serious as going to war with North Korea would be.

[funkychinaman]

Originally Posted by MT2008

Afghanistan is not North Korea. The consequences of invading Afghanistan were not nearly as serious as going to war with North Korea would be.

Certainly not as bad, but given their successes against superpowers, particularly against the Soviet Union, definitely in the Top Ten, if not Top Five of "Countries we'd prefer not to invade."

[Gunmaster45]

I say we just send Michael Jordon over to North Korea to play Kim Jong Il in a game of basketball. Il is obsessed with basketball (not even kidding), and has wanted to play Michael Jordon for some time. I think if we sent Jordon over, the chance of him beating that midget at B-Ball would be high, and then Jordon could overthrow Il as leader. And then everyone wins. Except Kim Jong Il. But fuck that guy.

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by Gunmaster45

I say we just send Michael Jordon over to North Korea to play Kim Jong Il in a game of basketball. Il is obsessed with basketball (not even kidding), and has wanted to play Michael Jordon for some time. I think if we sent Jordon over, the chance of him beating that midget at B-Ball would be high, and then Jordon could overthrow Il as leader. And then everyone wins. Except Kim Jong Il. But fuck that guy.

A midget who had a stroke versus a has-been NBA player? Hmmm, that might be a little more evenly matched than you'd think.

Also, Kim Jong-Un is about to succeed Jong-Il. That's what all this commotion is about.

[BurtReynoldsMoustache]

Originally Posted by MT2008

A midget who had a stroke versus a has-been NBA player? Hmmm, that might be a little more evenly matched than you'd think.

Also, Kim Jong-Un is about to succeed Jong-Il. That's what all this commotion is about.

Is there a specific reason for this or do things just get all whacked out of control when power changes hands?