Questions

[Yournamehere]

While it isn't what many consider the perfectly accurate term, I don't think it's in league with the word clip in it's inaccuracy. A clip is a completely different mechanism than a magazine, as well as a slang term for magazine, where the term silencer, although slang, means the same thing as "sound suppressor." If anything it's better to say silencer as there are other types of suppressors, and saying sound suppressor is a mouthful. Sometimes you can cut corners with good enough words, granted that they're not completely wrong.

[Gunmaster45]

I meant supersonic, not subsonic. My head was elsewhere.

I missed the first sentence of the original post, so my mistake for questioning homicidal sounding questions. Oops.

[MT2008]

Originally Posted by Yournamehere

While it isn't what many consider the perfectly accurate term, I don't think it's in league with the word clip in it's inaccuracy. A clip is a completely different mechanism than a magazine, as well as a slang term for magazine, where the term silencer, although slang, means the same thing as "sound suppressor." If anything it's better to say silencer as there are other types of suppressors, and saying sound suppressor is a mouthful. Sometimes you can cut corners with good enough words, granted that they're not completely wrong.

True, but the fact is that "silencer" is a fairly inaccurate description of what a sound suppressor does.

Also, I usually just say "suppressor" myself, which isn't any more of a "mouthful" than saying "silencer".

[Nyles]

I have to chime in on that 6 block headshot - unless the blocks in your city are alot shorter than in mine, that is 100% impossible with a handgun, .22 or otherwise. An exceptional shot might manage a headshot at 100 yards on a stationary target - your average shooter has trouble hitting center mass at 300 yards with an open-sighted rifle.

[Pointy Sextant]

Originally Posted by Nyles

I have to chime in on that 6 block headshot - unless the blocks in your city are alot shorter than in mine, that is 100% impossible with a handgun, .22 or otherwise. An exceptional shot might manage a headshot at 100 yards on a stationary target - your average shooter has trouble hitting center mass at 300 yards with an open-sighted rifle.

The point of the shot is that the character making it is possessed of inhuman abilities. Is the shot impossible because the bullet won't go the distance because of simple physics, super sonic or sub sonic no matter which, or because the skill required is impossible? The former requires a rewrite, the latter is a-ok.

And in response to the first question no, I'm not planning on killing anybody, but the clean lines and simplicity of the Ruger are attractive to me from a writing standpoint and the underpowered nature of the round seems to me to only accentuate the skill of a killer using it. However, if no .22 caliber round is capable of reasonable armor penetration, then I'll have to upgrade to a more reasonable handgun.

The idea here is that the shooter involved does things with the pistol that are seemingly impossible but still within the realm of physical possibility. If that is not true, than I need to find another weapon that will serve my purposes.

More specifically on why I like the Ruger as a silenced handgun because of the snub, close fitting almost integrated suppressor. The suppressor just replacing the barrel and not fitting onto the end of the barrel.

In the world of speculative gun alternatives, how does the Sig Sauer P220 and so on work on range fire, and what can be worked with silencers?

Also, I like the look of the integrated compensator on the Sig Sport. Now I understand that the idea of the silencer and the compensator clash pretty completely, but I'm willing to sacrifice the silenced aspect for the long range shot, which brings me to my next question. How would a full metal jacket, .45 ACP round smelted entirely out of Tungsten work for penetration on body armor, material, and soft targets?

Last edit. Could a silencer with an improvised Nielson device increase work on a smaller caliber handgun or just on browning style weapons and above?

[Nyles]

A .22 round will go that far (at least out of a rifle), but no handgun has the accuracy to do that. It's not a question of skill, even if it's completley immobilised in a mechanical rest and you've got a ballistic computer handy, it simply does not have the intrinsic accuracy to make that shot. Handguns are handguns and rifles are rifles.

Although even with a rifle that's a hell of a shot - all false modesty aside, in the military I'm considered an above average marksman. Using an open-sighted rifle (specifically a C7 or SA80A2) I can knock down a man sized target at 300 meters all day long, anything much further is pushing it. Combat-type scope (3.4X C79A1 or 4X SUSAT) helps, but not by that much.

As for the .45ACP round, assuming you're talking about a solid tungsten round (an FMJ bulley is, by definition, not a single piece of solid metal), it's not going to penetrate body armor with a trauma plate - that's a low velocity round with a low ballsitic coefficient. It's doesn't do range or penetration well. At normal handgun range it'll penetrate the bodywork on a car, most interior walls, but nothing really solid. A standard 230-grain .45ACP FMJ round will barely dent 3/4" aluminum (in fact, of all the varied handguns I've tried, only a 7.62mm Tokarev comes close to penetrating - very close, in fact), and I very much doubt that a steel or tungsten cored round would do much better. Small and fast rounds penetrate, big slow ones don't.

A Neilson device (just a muzzle booster, really) applies to recoil-operated locked breech firearms only, which these days are pretty much only (most) pistols of 9mm Luger calibre and above. A smaller pistol is usually straight blowback with a fixed barrel, which aren't effected by the additional weight of a supressor anyways.

[Pointy Sextant]

Originally Posted by Nyles

A .22 round will go that far (at least out of a rifle), but no handgun has the accuracy to do that. It's not a question of skill, even if it's completley immobilised in a mechanical rest and you've got a ballistic computer handy, it simply does not have the intrinsic accuracy to make that shot. Handguns are handguns and rifles are rifles.

Although even with a rifle that's a hell of a shot - all false modesty aside, in the military I'm considered an above average marksman. Using an open-sighted rifle (specifically a C7 or SA80A2) I can knock down a man sized target at 300 meters all day long, anything much further is pushing it. Combat-type scope (3.4X C79A1 or 4X SUSAT) helps, but not by that much.

As for the .45ACP round, assuming you're talking about a solid tungsten round (an FMJ bulley is, by definition, not a single piece of solid metal), it's not going to penetrate body armor with a trauma plate - that's a low velocity round with a low ballsitic coefficient. It's doesn't do range or penetration well. At normal handgun range it'll penetrate the bodywork on a car, most interior walls, but nothing really solid. A standard 230-grain .45ACP FMJ round will barely dent 3/4" aluminum (in fact, of all the varied handguns I've tried, only a 7.62mm Tokarev comes close to penetrating - very close, in fact), and I very much doubt that a steel or tungsten cored round would do much better. Small and fast rounds penetrate, big slow ones don't.

A Neilson device (just a muzzle booster, really) applies to recoil-operated locked breech firearms only, which these days are pretty much only (most) pistols of 9mm Luger calibre and above. A smaller pistol is usually straight blowback with a fixed barrel, which aren't effected by the additional weight of a supressor anyways.

So conceivably, my marksman could equip himself with an Eastern Bloc pistol firing the 7.62mm Tokarev, construct his own rounds out of tungsten or some other high density or extremely hard metal, and be fairly confident in penetration? If so, my next question is accuracy.

What would you say is the most accurate and dependable modern pistol firing the 7.62mm Tokarev round, or is it strictly speaking a round one does not depend on for accuracy?

The Russian aspect is perfectly workable as the story has its roots in the Chechen War and this fits perfectly into the larger framework of the narrative.

What's more, what books would you gentlemen recommend I purchase to research the inner workings and functions of fire arms in detail, as well as the state of the modern fire arm?

[Nyles]

Well, the only two worth mentionning are the Tokarev TT-33 and the Czech vz.52. Of the two, the Tokarev is alot handier and (contrary to what you'll sometimes read on the net) stronger, but the vz.52 actually has a safety and tends to be more accurate. Of course neither is what you'd call modern.

They're plenty accurate, considering how they're made, but they won't compete with a modern gun.

You might want to check out theboxoftruth.com. There's alot of good articles there that'll explain what guns can and can't do, and there's a good article on the cz.52 in there as well.

[Ultraussie]

Dont watse your time with .22, get a bloody 9mm or something.
BTW, Rugers suck except for full auto Mini14

[Gunmaster45]

Rugers don't suck. They are fine guns (my first handgun was a Ruger Mk II, a very fine plinker). I've been reading some of your comments, you definately have your opinions. Some of them are a little one sided though. Calibers differ from shooter to shooter. A .22 is good for short to medium ranges if a head shot is possible. Control is very easy, stopping power is poor (it is a great suppressed gun because of the quietness and short action). 9mm is the intermediate sized round. Fast but deadly. It isn't a "man stopper" because it can go straight through a man and all the kinetic energy is lost. Large rounds like 10mm and .45 ACP are cumbersome and some shooters can't control the recoil but the rounds are slow and stop in the target, maximizing stopping power (but knocking a man off his feet is pure BS). I think for an assassin, exotic rounds like 5.7x28mm seem interesting. They are great for body armor but suffer the same flaw as the 9mm. I'm a .45 man myself, but no round is perfect.